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cessna

Blender pump idea question for 1outlaw

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I didn't have a clue what a blender pump was until late 2002 and was told they were extremely expensive. When going to New Orleans in Jan. 2003 I kept seeing blender pumps starting in southern Missouri dispensing gasoline only. When I got back to Fayetteville AR to visit a friend I called the local fuel pump place and found out he would sell a blender for closer to $10,000 than the $25,000 I'd been told previously. I called NEVC with the idea of ethanol/gasoline. They referred me to Clean Fueling in Texas that was promoting a portable skid tank setup that could dispense E85 at gas stations. They said the blending idea was good but would never happen because of not enough demand. I called Seneca in Omaha and the guy there said it was impossible to blend E10 and E85 because the mix was so lopsided. Then, when going to Oshkosh 2005 I met 1outlaw at their first Renew station----he was checking daily receipts to see how things were working. My question is, when did and who came up with the idea that Renew proceeded to do what other experts said was impossible.

Marty

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First- The only reason our blender pumps are $25,000 each is because we chose top line type pumps, they are not subsidized by an oil company program, and have $5,000 worth of cash acceptors in them.

Second-The idea of using blender pumps was the result of a conversation between my equipment supplier and I based on my needs. It saves us big money by cutting trucking expense, extra tanks, inventory costs, keeping oil company fingers out of the ethanol pie, and leaves me flexible for the future if E98 comes to fruition for street cars or racing. Think about inventory costs alone- if I had a third tank for another gas blend filled with an average inventory of 6,000 gallons X $3.00 I would have far more tied up than the extra 10,000 in dispenser cost (for 2 dispensers) plus i would have to own another $10,000 tank which could leak.

 

We have yet to experience a single problem with the fuel piping, seals, meters, blend valves, or any other "wet" portion of these dispensers. The blend accuracy is always perfect at 10-90%. It is my understanding that 1-9% or 91-99% could be an issue with accuracy but we never try to blend at those %'s.

 

People are just too afraid to step out of their box sometimes.

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The station I get my E85 from has an in-ground tank for E85, but I never asked how the pipe it. The pump is under a canopy at a Conoco station. That's another thing that makes some of these politics so foreign to me with oil companies. It's right there and plenty useable from a name brand company. What am I missing?

 

Is there a laymen method of explaining how a blender pump could work there? I've talked to the managers and they're open to ideas. Blender pumps at all 5 islands instead of clogging one E85 pump would increase business, I would think.

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Blender pumps at all 5 islands instead of clogging one E85 pump would increase business, I would think.

 

If your talking about the 300 S Broadway station, I agree, I have had to wait for a pump nozzle several times there recently.

 

Even if not all 5 pump islands it they just put blender pumps on #4 and kept the straight E85 pumps on island #5 (northern most island) they would only need to upgrade a single island (#4) and run a few feet of pipe between the islands, and would double the number of E85 nozzles available and add the feature of "dial a blend" pumping of E85 on the #4 island.

 

Then as demand increased they could go to blender pumps on #5 or add them to #3 etc. etc.. If they went to blender pumps on #3 and #4 that would triple available E85 nozzles for the cost of 4 blender pumps and 30' of pipe run under the drives.

 

Larry

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Conoco would have to approve placing E85 on the same dispenser as branded products if this station is still under contract. This is what holds back several branded stations.

 

If the station puts in blenders to offer various e-blends the island will have to have two pipes coming to it- one NL gas and one E85 or E98. (E98 would be preferable to E85 in some markets as it avoids the ethanol coming through an oil terminal --unless the E85 comes direct from a friendly ethanol plant.)

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The station I filled up at last night (Gunbarrel) is a Conoco/Phillips station and has a large (about 8"x10" stenciled message at the top of the E85 fuel pump.

 

This is not a Conoco/Phillips fuel product!

 

I have heard of others mentioning the same on their pumps so at least some of the suppliers are figuring out a way to share pumps, this is also on one of the fuel islands not an isolated pump so that is a move in the right direction. Not sure but I assume these are privately owned stations not company owned stations.

 

Larry

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  Larry ,

 

          The First Stop(Phillips 66) station in Longmont has this same  verbiage and

        pump setup.  I don't remember seeing this type of disclaimer on the Silco (Conoco)

        station at 300 S. Broadway in Denver,  but that pump was one of the original E85

        locations in the state of Colorado. I remember not having to wait in line at all for

        E85 at that location, and now it's commonplace. So it looks like what most E85

        stations are using is called the 3+1 setup, is that what you see??

 

        I just read a news release from NEVC about blender pumps not being included in this

        first round of UL certifications , and perhaps not for some time after they get an initial

        test regiment established. All they have so far is something like an outline.

        The good news, if there is any-  most of the equipment in field complies with what's

      in the outline. The first(E85) pump certifications can be expected mid 2008...

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Greengenes wrote

I just read a news release from NEVC about blender pumps not being included in this

        first round of UL certifications ,

That shows Big Brother( I mean the oil companies) is still in control.

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