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Flex-fuel vehicles are approaching it wrong

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Minnesota has given the okay to "Blender Pumps."

 

Cool! (Now that I don't need to blend any more.)

 

Hey Rufus..

 

 

Ethanl Producer is saying 2 stations now have blender pumps..

 

Within a few days, Minnesota went from zero ethanol blender pumps to two with openings at Border States Cooperative in Ortonville and Cenex Convenience Store in Belgrade. Both stations opened the pumps after state rules governing the dispensing of ethanol blends changed. The pumps have been in use across the state line in South Dakota since last year. Belgrade's pumps opened Oct. 11.

 

The ethanol blender pumps allow consumers to choose the ratio of ethanol to gasoline in their fuel, with blends of E10, E20, E30, E50 and E85 available with most blender pumps. Although use of blends higher than E10 is not recommended for non-flexible fuel vehicles, flexible fuel vehicles can run on any combination of ethanol and gasoline and are not restricted to gasoline or E85.

 

The recent change in state rules that opened the door for blender pumps is the latest move Minnesota has made toward a more renewable energy portfolio. The state already has an E10 mandate and is working to get the U.S. EPA to grant an E20 waiver so that non-flex fuel vehicles can run on 20 percent ethanol blends. That waiver would make it possible for an E20 mandate, which state legislator have discussed.

 

 

http://ethanolproducer.com/article.jsp?article_id=3359

 

 

I stil hate the E20 Mandate "idea" ..but Blender pumps offering the E50 is a fantastic Idea..  Let the consumer choose .. 

 

E50 would allow for so many more vehicles to run high concentyrations of ethanol and E50 would certainly fall in the "Alterntive fuel" category compared to E20 an "additive for gasoline fuel ..

AND  the E50 option would more than satisfy the Ethanol producers "need" to sell quantity

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Guest colchiro
Ethanl Producer is saying 2 stations now have blender pumps..

 

Within a few days, Minnesota went from zero ethanol blender pumps to two with openings at Border States Cooperative in Ortonville....

 

Looks similar to a bunch of articles I Googled.

 

I considered hitting Ortonville on my way back home today to check out these pumps, but it would be an extra 75 miles and I'd wouldn't have the luxury of Interstates.... ::)

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I have a tendency to get a little "excited" from time to time, but this seems like a "Huge" deal, to me.  I was really startled at how much a couple of the retailers saw their ethanol sales go up after converting from just E85 to Blender pumps.  I think two or three times was the "low" end, and 10 times was the top end.

 

Before I get too "hyperventilated," are these "Practical" for a majority of service stations?  They have to install a new tank, right?  Would many/most? retailers be able to do this?  Are there other large problems that I'm not seeing?

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Rufus, If the tanks are pretty new at a station it probably won't take an additional tank to get the blender going. 1outlaw said something about 3 hose blenders----how do they work compared to single hose dispensers? How much more money is a dispenser that can meter 5 different blends vs. 3 blends?

Marty

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Thanks EB Cornburner- the thought of trying to get a Swedish version of the ECU had not occurred to me. I will bounce that off a couple of Saab Techs.

 

Cessna- couldn't tell you what the cost difference is between a 3 product and a 5 product blender pump. The way a blender pump works is that you have two meters (one per side) and two metering valves per side (one ethanol/one gas)--when you pick the product it will sequence blend the two incoming products together according to the programmed blend. A single product dispenser has 1 product line coming in, no metering valves, and 1 meter per side.

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I still think turbos / forced induction is not the answer.  It wont help because the engine has to operate at a wide variety of throttle settings, not just WOT where the turbo kicks in.

 

What I think might work is electronically actuated valves, specifically the intake.  You could start with a 13:1 static compression ratio engine, and close the intake valve late for operation on gasoline, effectively lowering the compression.  On ethanol, the intake valve closes earlier, and the cylinder builds more compression, and thus raises the efficency.

 

Or maybe something like different cam lobes for each fuel.

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I still think turbos / forced induction is not the answer.  It wont help because the engine has to operate at a wide variety of throttle settings, not just WOT where the turbo kicks in.

 

Where did you get the idea turbo's only  make boost at WOT? The compressor spins at >20,000 rpm at idle and on properly sized turbos for the street, they go into boost at very small throttle inputs above cruise settings. On the WRX most will make over 6psi of boost by 3000 rpm and hit their boost limit by 3500 rpm if you have the boost controller set to give you all its potential.

 

Most turbos make too much boost too soon and are normally operating with the waste gate partially open to prevent over boost in day to day driving.

 

Larry

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