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TransCanada XL and ethanol

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I wonder if there is a chance the XP pipe will carry ethanol or refined E85 if it ever gets built?

 

We already have at least one pipeline and major rail yard bringing ethanol into Texas, or at least DFW.

 

The pipeline was stopped again today in Nebraska by a county judge in Nebraska.

 

Mike

 

Back in the exchange again, still driving the Ram Flexfuel.  Between the Amsoil and the E85 it's pretty clean inside the motor!

 

 

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The ruling was in the Lancaster County Court (county in which the state capital Lincoln is located).  The judge ruled that the decision to approve the pipelines new route (avoiding the Sand Hills region), was NOT in the Governor's authority.  This power is delegated to the Public Service Commission, which is to approve (or disapprove) all power/transmission lines, pipelines, railroads, phone lines... 

 

HOW the Governor was allowed (by the state Attorney General) to exercise powers that were beyond his authority is beyond me.  They may be able to do this in Washington DC, but I would think that it would not be done here in Nebraska.

 

If the Gov really does want to see this thing built, he really screwed them over big time here.  Now the opposition has rallied against it, they have been majorly stalled, and the momentum is on the opposition side.  Had he really supported the building of the pipeline, he would have lifted heaven and earth to assure that EVERYTHING was done by the books to the letter of the law, to avoid ANY setbacks in any court.

 

Personally I have mixed feelings about the pipeline.

 

Pros.

Since we do (regrettably) need oil, I'd rather it be purchased from a nearby closest friend and partner, helping boost THEIR economy, as so much of their economy trickles back down across the border.

 

Reduce the money sent to parts of the world (middle east or Venezuela) that openly hate us and use these profits to fund terrorism and destabilizing the globe.

 

Jobs (in it's construction, as well as in it's operation)

 

Make the economic boom in the Baaken Oil fields all the more sustainable, encouraging this prosperous sector of our nations week economy.

 

Say what you will about the environmental impact of oil sands, the Canadians are going to be doing it.  The question is, will they be piping it south to the US, or west to massive oil tankers in the fragile Pacific Northwest region, bout for China and the far east.

 

Cons.

I still don't like oil, or the oil industry.  Environmentally, politically, economically.  Why would I support ANYTHING that would be good for them?

 

Still not 100% sure that this would be for domestic use.  Who is to say that this will not simply be an easier way for the international oil industry to get crude and refined oil products loaded onto tankers (from the existing port facilities in Texas) for the global market.  I don't want to risk OUR environment if it is NOT going to be benefiting us.  Not worth the risk then.

 

Any shipping of crude (especially this toxic sludge) has risks.  No matter what engineering precautions are taken... everything has risks.  I would hate to see the word "Platte River" conger up images of a colossal oil spill like people picture when they hear the name "Valdez" or "Prince William Sound"...  They should be picturing sand hills cranes, meandering sand bars, graceful cottonwoods instead.

 

 

With the way world oil markets go, us getting more oil sands from Canada will not necessarily reduce the cost of gas here in the US, as China will simply be buying more from the middle east, and less from Canada.  No new oil will be entering the market.  The only slight reduction would be from the fact that pipelines move oil at a reduced cost from tankers, and are less prone to supply issues due to hurricane season in the Gulf, or world political turmoil.

 

As I say, I'm torn.  Not fully in EITHER camp. 

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We already have at least one pipeline and major rail yard bringing ethanol into Texas, or at least DFW.

 

I didn't realize Texas had a pipeline transporting ethanol. I knew there was a short one from Tampa over to the Orlando area.

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Just found THIS...

 

http://pgjonline.com/kinder-morgan-completes-gulf-coast-ethanol-terminal

 

This is a short Houston facility for ethanol unit trains to unload, and a pipeline to the coastal facility...

 

“Our DPRT unit-train facility and its inter-terminal connections provide additional service options to our Gulf Coast customers and further expand our nationwide distribution network of ethanol handling facilities connected by rail, marine, truck and pipeline,”

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I've said I am 100% anti-oil, and I am 110% against the pipeline. I question the "facts" that the pro-KXL activists cite (42k jobs, $2 billion in workers' pockets, $3.4 billion to the GDP, which is one heck of a jump), and I have absolutely no trust in oil transportation infrastructure. If we've now seen pipelines leak tar sands because of incompatibility with the tar sands material, why should we believe that any "new" piping would be able to withstand the corrosive effects of the oil? You have to inject chemicals just to get the stuff to move through pipeline. Also, it only takes one drop of oil to contaminate 15 gallons of water. The proposed pipeline route runs right over the Ogallala Aquifer, which is a major source of irrigation for farmland in the plains, and drinking water for about 1.8 million people. One tar sands spill and that aquifer is decimated.

 

Now as far as ethanol, I have this to offer. At the networking reception last Tuesday night, I had the opportunity to speak to someone from the Canadian Renewable Fuels Association - yes, there is one. My impression of Canada has been that their image of environmental friendliness is very pitiful... given how self-sufficient they are on their own tar sands. He told me that the relationship between the oil industry and the renewable fuels folks is far different in Canada than it is here. In Canada, they actually work well together from what he told me. Apparently they do have a federal ethanol blending mandate, along with 6 provincial ones. The oil industry there is happy to blend in the small amount of ethanol. It's likely though that the reason we have a grand total of 12 E85 stations nationwide in Canada is because there, the oil industry owns the plants. When I first saw that they had ethanol plants, I thought "why"? My impression is that Canada does not have any desire for renewable fuels. Anyone who knows of me in the biofuels industry knows how outspoken I am against the oil industry. This guy actually disagreed with my views, and supports the Keystone XL pipeline. I do not trust the oil industry, much less TransCanada (builder of the pipeline), and I don't buy the notion that TransCanada wants anything to do with ethanol.

 

I also asked him if he knows what the energy return on investment (EROI) of tar sands. I've asked a number of people. The people in the ironically named group "Oil Sands 'Fact' Check" won't give me an answer. When I asked this guy about the EROI of tar sands, the guy next to him said "the ROI is a stupid number" and then said he thinks it's around 1/2 (for every unit invested in obtaining oil sands, you only get 1/2). Of course, that could explain why tar sands can only be profitably extracted when oil prices are high.

 

It's also worth noting why a number of people support it. Many people think it will lower gasoline prices. It won't. First of all, much of the refining infrastructure we have today has to be retooled and retrofitted to be able to process tar sands. So there's that cost cutting into any cost benefit we would see. But also, the tar sands is going down to refineries on the gulf coast to be refined, and shipped elsewhere. Sure, the oil is not being shipped overseas. But the products of it are. Why should I believe that it's profitable for them to move the oil all the way down to the gulf coast when we already have retooled refineries up here in the Great Lakes? Oil does not all go into automotive gasoline. In fact, only about 19 gallons out of every 55 gallon barrel do. The rest goes into distillates like diesel, heating oil, as well as plastics, asphalt, etc. So if anything, it would add to the pool of petroleum products. Also, if it did actually lower gas prices, demand would swell. If demand swells, we all know how gasoline prices would respond. So the very argument that the Keystone XL would result in lower gasoline prices is predicated on denial of basic supply and demand economics.

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Mp I am new to the site but live in Dallas Tx as well. Looking to learn plenty about ethanol in our area. I run E85 in my 2007 Dodge Ram since January of this year. Where does the pipeline come from?

 

I wonder if there is a chance the XP pipe will carry ethanol or refined E85 if it ever gets built?

 

We already have at least one pipeline and major rail yard bringing ethanol into Texas, or at least DFW.

 

The pipeline was stopped again today in Nebraska by a county judge in Nebraska.

 

Mike

 

Back in the exchange again, still driving the Ram Flexfuel. Between the Amsoil and the E85 it's pretty clean inside the motor!

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