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dan45mcc

ACE: Big Oil is forcing lower quality gasoline on the market

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My understanding is that ethanol will tend to raise octane effect more in the lower octane gas gasoline and less so in high octane- something like more than 2.5 AKI in 84 base and more like 2 AKI in 91 octane base.

 

One thing I really dislike is that the RBOB 84 plus 10% ethanol.always seemed to be the source of true mpg complaints as compared to 87 conventional base with 10% ethanol. I've read that it is common for this base RBOB alone that was used in non-attainment areas such as Chicago, Milwaukee, etc was responsible for up to 3-4% drop in fuel economy as compared to the typical 1 1/2% of E10 in conventional (many vehicles actually can gain on conventional E10 fuel rather than lose). If true- this would mean such RBOB base with 10% could be up to 5 1/2% loss in mpg. That would correlate to what literally hundreds of residents of that area would tell me about that fuel versus conventional E10 when they came up to central WI where they would load up their tanks before returning home. Is it true- who knows? A couple of possible causes are 1) a difference in energy content of blendstock components of RBOB and 2) ethanol is a great research octane enhancer but less so on motor octane- the blend of the two numbers lends a nice increase in AKI (R+M/2) but if the base gas gets too low on motor octane the ethanol will not bring it up enough- this would show up at high load, high heat, low RPM conditions causing the ECU to pull timing.

 

Is it the same for the gasoline that is blended for our E85 too?  That would explain why I have seen considerably better mileage coming home from Road America on E85 in the 200 as well as pump regular in my Jeep, especially since I tended to be more aggressive on the drives home in both vehicles.

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I heard they were switching the gas in the pipelines coming into Iowa effective September 15th, and the story went that we were going to be seeing a price jump at the pumps due to this.

 

I haven't really seen anything yet here in Des Moines, and I haven't seen any 87 Octane regular pumps being replaced with 85 Octact + Ethanol to bring it up to the 87 minimum I think Iowa requires.

 

Do stations like QuickTrip etc truck all their gas in so the pipeline changes have no effect?

 

 

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::)

 

They're foisting a lower grade of gas that is supposedly cheaper to make and increases the amount of that fuel produced on the state, then charging more for it?  If I still ljved there, I would be PISSED!

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I haven't looked into the specific regulations for fueling stations. So I am interested to hear that. I'm always curious what Blend stock they use. Especially for E85. ;D

 

::)

 

They're foisting a lower grade of gas that is supposedly cheaper to make and increases the amount of that fuel produced on the state, then charging more for it?  If I still ljved there, I would be PISSED!

 

Supply is pretty tight. It's possible the price jump is only during the transition period.

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The gas blendstock used in E85- particularly in summer grade is insignificant relative to energy content since it is such a minor % of the fuel. Furthermore- I prefer the use of natural gasoline which is the cleanest type and lacks any fuel additive other than pipeline anti-drag agent. It is also the lowest octane and energy content--but again an insignificant factor as it will only be 17-30% of E85 final blend. The reason I like it is that it is nearly sulfur free (no contributing acids in oil/less soot), adds a more vapor pressure (so less is needed and more alcohol can be used with equal or better cold start and final octane), and best yet- those with dedicated E85 cars like drag race or circle track types will not have additive clash/black snot on injectors or carb'ed intake runners (a rare but concerning issue to those with $6,000+ performance engines). I challenge anyone to find less mpg on this version of E85 vs one made with normal terminal gasoline (or soon to be RBOB).

 

On the flip side- a low btu content gasoline that is 90% of the fuel in your tank makes a big difference and is really aggravated if the octane is low and the ECU pulls back timing to avoid knock.

 

Wintermute- you will not likely find any 85 octane stickers in Des Moines- suboctane 84 is only a blendstock not to be sold as a complete fuel. Only as one travels west and the elevation climbs (ie Wyoming/Colorado) is an 85 offered legally. At high elevations less air is drawn into the engine, so less air is compressed, less heat is created from compression, power level goes down since less fuel can be put in less air to maintain proper air/fuel ratio, and thus the octane requirement drops.

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For energy independence sake... And to deprive the oil bastards of more market... I would like to see ALL e85 blended with natural gasoline/drip gas... Just take an extra tank at the terminal, or better yet blend right at ethanol plant. 

 

With blender pumps, and e85 in the tank, even the e10/15/30 would be using this...  Less gas for oil industry😘

 

Not to mention an even larger price spread if passed on to the consumer!

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For energy independence sake... And to deprive the oil bastards of more market... I would like to see ALL e85 blended with natural gasoline/drip gas... Just take an extra tank at the terminal, or better yet blend right at ethanol plant. 

 

With blender pumps, and e85 in the tank, even the e10/15/30 would be using this...  Less gas for oil industry😘

 

Yes but the problem is that you, I, or even a big private like Kum and Go will not be allowed to haul CBOB or RBOB suboctane out of the terminal into a station to blend in a blender pump. One oil company told me "we think it would be legal to sell you suboctane 84 because you can prove you legally blended it into a finished product BUT WE WILL NOT ALLOW IT ANYWAY"

Why was it that I wanted suboctane at that point? --because everybody else was buying terminal blended 87 E10 made with suboctane and the only 87 I could get was made with the crap suboctane anyway, blended with premium and costing 12 cents more than conventional 87 E0 cost in other areas where still available (they did not want conventional to be competitive for use as a blending agent outside of the terminal.

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