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dan45mcc

ACE: Big Oil is forcing lower quality gasoline on the market

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OK Guys consider this..yes 10% Ethanol would only raise 84 Octane to 86 Octane.. Ummm but what happens when you add 15% ethanol !  ;D ...  You end up with 87 Octane .

 

 

But it gets better...

 

 

So 87 Octane would then be restricted to 2001 and newer vehicles  AND that would mean everyone else would have use the more expensive 89 or 92 Octane..thus increasing Oils revenues and Profit (assuming the margins are a bit wider on premium gas..) ..

 

 

AND as the masses are confused and pissed  they get to Blame Ethanol !

 

 

 

 

lol ..hows that for a conspiracy

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I think dan, you are on to something here...  So should we look for some "compliance investigation" into "e10 not meeting mandated octane regulations"...  naughty ethanol, ethanol bad.  "regular/noethanol" 87 octane (blended with premium)...  fully complies with mandated octane ratings...  gas good...

 

To make up the difference, the gas stations will be "forced to by law" up from e10-15... not that they wanted to, but the law forced them to.

 

Then as you pointed out, this is only for 2001 and new vehicles, and even then, they can't be held liable for any damage from this "controversial fuel, mandated by law"...  They will probably "recomend" people use regular "no ethanol" fuel to be safe...

 

Wouldn't you know it, the price for this will spike (and stay there)... they will rake in HUGE profits (cheap subgrade gas+highly marked up premium) and they will say "we are so sorry, but because of this RFS and these regulations, we had no choice... our hands were tied...  don't blame us, if you are made because of the high prices... blame the ethanol lobby groups that forced us into this situation....

 

I CAN JUST HEAR IT NOW!

 

The gullible public will eat it up.  They have been laying the ground work for this for years.  I don't know if this is "checkmate" time, but it is just about "check"...

 

We need a solid no-holds barred response from the ethanol lobby/promotion groups. 

 

Knowing them, they will see this as a "good thing"...  hey, more e15!  "mission accomplished"!  They will feed right into it, and think THEY have succeeded...

 

CHECKMATE

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I'm pretty sure that ethanol at 10% actually raises the octane 2.5 points. Also, my cousin that is on the board of a big agricultural corp. in Omaha says that because of loose blending tolerances, we've probably gotten more than 10% some of the time already.

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I remember "back in the day"  (early-mid 90s) that "mid grade" here in nebraska was 89.5 octane...

 

I don't know when it was that this switched to 89...  so you are saying that there could be enough "in there" that if the gas is just over 84, and the ethanol adds 2.5... then they could probably get away with "rounding up" to 87...

 

Cheep a$$ ba$$tards!  Then they still get to blame ethanol for this whole predicament...

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My mistake on the timing. And I didn't know it was +2.5 octanes for blending Ethanol.

 

As for rounding octanes, that is completely legal. 87 only has to be 86.5 AKI. It's been that way for as long as I have known about it.

 

I would like to hear them blame the RFS for saving them money by using lower octane BoB to conserve Oil. It's very much a double edged sword. Most people will just have to use it or switch to midgrade. The rest of us can use more Ethanol.

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that because of loose blending tolerances, we've probably gotten more than 10% some of the time already.

 

 

My understanding on the ethanol blending: a 3% tolerance is allowed.  I got this information from one who works in the ethanol business and actually traveled around the country visiting the ethanol plants.

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My understanding is that ethanol will tend to raise octane effect more in the lower octane gas gasoline and less so in high octane- something like more than 2.5 AKI in 84 base and more like 2 AKI in 91 octane base.

 

One thing I really dislike is that the RBOB 84 plus 10% ethanol.always seemed to be the source of true mpg complaints as compared to 87 conventional base with 10% ethanol. I've read that it is common for this base RBOB alone that was used in non-attainment areas such as Chicago, Milwaukee, etc was responsible for up to 3-4% drop in fuel economy as compared to the typical 1 1/2% of E10 in conventional (many vehicles actually can gain on conventional E10 fuel rather than lose). If true- this would mean such RBOB base with 10% could be up to 5 1/2% loss in mpg. That would correlate to what literally hundreds of residents of that area would tell me about that fuel versus conventional E10 when they came up to central WI where they would load up their tanks before returning home. Is it true- who knows? A couple of possible causes are 1) a difference in energy content of blendstock components of RBOB and 2) ethanol is a great research octane enhancer but less so on motor octane- the blend of the two numbers lends a nice increase in AKI (R+M/2) but if the base gas gets too low on motor octane the ethanol will not bring it up enough- this would show up at high load, high heat, low RPM conditions causing the ECU to pull timing.

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that because of loose blending tolerances, we've probably gotten more than 10% some of the time already.

 

 

My understanding on the ethanol blending: a 3% tolerance is allowed.  I got this information from one who works in the ethanol business and actually traveled around the country visiting the ethanol plants.

 

Not in Wisconsin- the inspectors never allowed me over 1/2% over- even that would subject me to another round of inspections. Any time I was over it came back to poor sampling procedures on blender pumps (which need bigger samples than 1 pint out of a hose or manifold that just contained E20 or E85). But of course I was the bad guy that everyone loved to hate in the fuel business ;D .

 

Fuel requirements are first federal but states inspect and do vary greatly in interpretation. The problem we had here was the chief of inspectors was an ethanol hater though his team secretly felt the opposite but were under his control.

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