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gasisoutrageous

Made my first pitch to a gas-using FFV owner

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So today, I went to an open house of a friend who had just graduated (hard to believe it has been two years for me already) from high school. I noticed a Flex-fuel Chrysler Town and Country sitting in the driveway, and after a while, I spoke to the woman who owns it and puts fuel in it. Come to find out, she was aware that it was flex-fuel. She told me much the same as what my neighbor has: she was worried it would ruin the engine, and that it would be bad if she switched. She actually didn't know that E85 has lower fuel economy. Even though the spreads have collapsed in the past week or so, I'm hoping the pitch worked.

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She has a FFV and believes that E-85 will ruin her engine.

 

Isn't it mind boggling the scope of the misinformation that they have been able to achieve with this? It truly is akin to people believing the world is flat.

 

Congrats petroleum. You have done an amazing job with your PR.

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yes, they have put in a great deal of work.

 

It amazes me that they have been so successful with even the mechanical people of this country.  I have heard from so many mechanics over the years that "it may say it can use e85, but I wouldn't, it will slowly ruin your engine over time..." or other horse s***t...

 

Still, we must keep at it.

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Don't you guys watch NASCAR and the INDY car races. Don't you see all those engine failures. NASCAR runs E15 fuel and INDY runs E98.

 

Look at the URL. Scroll down to Ethanol. Intersting few paragraphs.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IndyCar_Series or read below:

 

In 2005, driver Paul Dana brought the sponsorship of the Ethanol Promotion and Information Council (EPIC) to his IndyCar team. EPIC is a consortium of ethanol producers that advocate the increased use of ethanol. EPIC was anxious to address public concerns that ethanol use led to engine damage and poor performance when used in street cars. As a marketing effort, it was believed that sponsoring an IndyCar could be used as a tool to promote education and awareness of ethanol use, and to curb the spread of erroneous information.

 

Dana was killed in a crash in 2006, but the IRL had already begun a transition to ethanol fuel. For the 2006 season, the fuel was a 90%/10% mixture of methanol and ethanol. Starting in 2007, the league advertised "100% Fuel Grade Ethanol", the first competitive series to utilize renewable fuel. The mixture is actually 98% ethanol and 2% gasoline for races held in the United States. It was provided by Lifeline Foods of Saint Joseph, Missouri. The additives satisfied the U.S. government's requirements that the alcohol be unfit for human consumption, and added visible color in case of a fire. The 2010 São Paulo Indy 300, held in Brazil - outside of the U.S. regulations - utilized a full E100 mixture, the first instance in the sport.

 

To compensate for the gain of power due to the use of ethanol, the displacement was decreased back to 3.5L. Since ethanol gets worse fuel mileage than methanol, the fuel tanks in the car were increased. Compared to methanol, human contact with the current ICS fuel is much less harsh, and the fumes much less irritating. The fumes are often compared with the sweet smell of apple cider or apple cobbler. Unlike methanol, ethanol is not caustic and does not cause chemical burns when it comes in contact with skin. It is also less polluting when spilled compared to methanol.

 

On May 2010, Sunoco became the official fuel of the series starting in 2011, running through 2014. Sunoco will work with APEX-Brasil and UNICA to provide ethanol for the series

 

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WIKI sometimes shows it was written by fallible humans. Ethanol has more energy density than the methanol it replaced. As such tanks could either be smaller, there could be fewer pit stops, or at least less fuel used. INDY indeed issues less fuel to each car than previously but I do not recall if they also reduced fuel cell size.

 

I seem to recall that for the INDY 500 they had at least discussed running E85 in an attempt to run something closer to what is available on the street for the 2012 or 2013 season. I do not think Lifeline Foods is the supplier today (remember either 2011 or 2012 was Brazilian ethanol)- last I heard I thought the E85 supplier was Ignite, an Indiana firm who sells ethanol race blends.

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Sounds like ethanol has much more of a future than methanol. But yeah, I've learned that E85 is a fantastic performance fuel. 0 to 60 time is actually quite good on my car. To be fair, I'm not willing to try it with gas. I should also note that this is actually my 2nd pitch to a gas using FFV owner. My uncle (mom's brother) owns a flex fuel '11 GMC Sierra. Very comfortable ride. He had said that he can't afford the lower mileage. Well, when we had the $1.00 spread earlier this month, I texted him and reminded him that now it is worth the lower mpg. He simply said "lucky you".

 

The performance aspect, though, I think is a huge plus/pro for E85.

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My brother (works for a major seed corn research company...) just recently traded in for a 2010 Ford 4 door F150 4x4 to replace his GMC Acadia for the "family vehicle"...  good news is this is FFV...  they even have blender pumps for e30 near by, and LOTS of e85...

 

But I'm having the darndest time getting him to use even e30 in it..., much less splash blending in the non-FFV impala...

 

For MANY (well, probably MOST) people, they are averse to change... even a change that is in their best interest (personal finance, regional/national economic, better environment...)  It is a fear that they are being duped, and will look stupid/gullible if what they are being promised turns out to be false.

 

The irony is that WE are telling them the truth, and WE are being called liars... and the gullible public is sticking with the known, and proven technology (which is a lie), and being taken for suckers EVERY day, day in and day out for over a century...  And the lemmings keep taking it, for fear of being taken by what the oil industry shills tell them are nothing but snake oil salesmen taking them for fools...

 

Irony at it's best.

 

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For MANY (well, probably MOST) people, they are averse to change... even a change that is in their best interest (personal finance, regional/national economic, better environment...)  It is a fear that they are being duped, and will look stupid/gullible if what they are being promised turns out to be false.

 

The irony is that WE are telling them the truth, and WE are being called liars... and the gullible public is sticking with the known, and proven technology (which is a lie), and being taken for suckers EVERY day, day in and day out for over a century...  And the lemmings keep taking it, for fear of being taken by what the oil industry shills tell them are nothing but snake oil salesmen taking them for fools...

 

Irony at it's best.

I can't remember if I mentioned this, but I spoke to someone who maintains the gas price prediction site, The Gas Game, back in February, about ethanol. He phrased it in a way I hadn't thought of before: ethanol is to gasoline as Mac is to Microsoft Windows. Whether you prefer a Mac or a PC, odds are, you're going to deal with a PC at some point in your lifetime. You might have it at work, at the library, at home, or all 3. Personally, I've found that it is much easier to go from a Windows to a Windows than from a Mac to a Windows (or the other way around).

 

But back to the point... Microsoft has a well established foothold in the computer market. Most people own a PC, and they're usually cheaper to buy. So that is much the same here... the fueling infrastructure for gas is completely established. Most of us say "I'm going to go put gas in my car" or "I've just won a $25 gas card; and not "I'm going to go put E85 in my car" or "I've just won a $25 E85 card". Freeway signs say "GAS - EXIT 106A" as opposed to "E-85 - EXIT 106A"... with the exception of a small yellow banner that will say E-85 for some retailers that carry it. E85 has such a limited infrastructure, and we're all so used to gasoline being the primary fuel.

 

Often times when I would show someone a picture of the fuel I use and one of the fuel they use, they'll respond "I don't care what it looks like. As long as I put it in my car and it runs, that's all I care about".

 

So to another subtopic, I stopped into the Carriage Hills Marathon in East Lansing to fill my tank, since the low fuel light came on earlier today. I saw the manager, and explained to him why I hadn't seen him in a while. J&H hiked their etoh price to $3.399, and meanwhile it was $3.289 (for a brief time $3.099) down the road at H&H Mobil. He reminded me again what I fool I was for using it. He told me that it was going to burn through my car's hoses. After asking me if I had a flex-fuel (le-DUH!), he said "yeah, it might take... 6 or 7 years, but it'll happen". Even after reminding him that my car is a flex-fuel, meaning it has a specific powertrain, metal fuel hoses, and a special oxygen sensor, he stuck to it. Big oil and its supporters are persistent... which is exactly why we must be. Nonetheless, now that H&H Mobil has also dropped to $2.99 again, I might just be filling up there instead.

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we have been using e85 exclusivly in my household for 4+ years (other then the unfortunate 2 gallons...)... so for my 6 and 10 year old... that is really all that they know.

 

We call it "making a trip to the ETHANOL station"...  if you say "GAS station"... you WILL get corrected VERY quickly.

 

We have to call it the "accellerator pedal" (not gas pedal), "low fuel light" (not low gas light)...

 

Just like teaching kids to recycle when they are young... they will know nothing but that, and it will be natural and logical.  They know that you can't just pull up to ANY old "gas station"...

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Trust me, I know. I have to remind everyone when they say "you're burning a lot of gas" or "didn't you just get gas"? Um, I hardly burned any gas, and I don't use gas. I use fuel. I've annoyed my parents  ;D

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