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Billyk

E15 study just released that claims engine failure with this useage

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This link: http://www.crcao.com/reports/recentstudies2012/CM-136-09-1B%20Engine%20Durability/CRC%20CM-136-09-1B%20Final%20Report.pdf

 

has caused a "stir" in the press and in various forums about E15 usage and engine damage.    However, one of the engines that failed, did so on straight gasoline!  Of course this was not reported in the press or mentioned in the various on-line forums.  Then again, the title would make you think the failed engines "blew-up" but they still worked but out of specifications.

 

I'm not in favor of E15 blends unless it is part of a blender pump.  The link can serve as a reference for "information". 

 

 

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Well only two failed but one failed the durability test which might have been an application problem. :D Technically 4 passed or were waived on E20 and subsequently E15. I think this needs further study as this is a small sample.

 

I'm actually curious how the two engines that failed would do on E10. They might have not be designed properly for Ethanol compatibility! It could just be a coincidence that two of the engines are older with high mileage. The Honda CRV and the VW engine are my suspects for the engines that failed.

 

My guess for the engine that failed catastrophically is the almost new Chevy Aveo. ;D ALthough the Dodge Ram engine could have...

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The first sentence of that report tells me everything I need to know.

 

"The Coordinating Research Council, Inc. (CRC) is a non-profit corporation supported by the petroleum and automotive equipment industries."

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I think this needs further study as this is a small sample

 

The EPA based their decision upon 6 million miles of testing!  The study referred to used 500 miles times the number of vehicles and then claimed the EPA rushed the decision to the market! ;D

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SteveV's response on Domestic Fuel website---would be nice to get this info on front page of major newspapers

I applaud DOE for having issued the rebuttal for the method in which this study was conducted and how the vehicles were selected. This wasn’t something prepared at the last minute once CRC was ready to release the full study; they like others knew what this testing was intending to show. What is somewhat disappointing is that just yesterday, I was at a government agency and they made light of the fact they knew what the outcome of this study was going to be two years ago just by reading the RFP issued by CRC. They had access to data that showed what vehicles did fail and knew this match up with what was being seen in the market place without higher blends. It is unfortunate that many outcomes of studies today can be determined by how the testing procedures are written. Like several other studies and this include prior CRC work, fuel blending or vehicle operation can greatly alter testing outcomes. I would challenge CRC if they wanted to prove their credibility, asks EPA publically to release the data from the EPAct study V2/E89 program. 19 vehicles and 31 fuels with varying aromatics and ethanol content. I wonder if API would hold a press release for this testing data.

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I just got to read this report 2 months ago for work and a few things popped out as 'fishy' to me.

 

None of the vehicles were purchased new.

Majority had over 50-100k miles BEFORE running their durability test.

They did not have any constants, just bought used vehicles, ran them, took apart the engines, and noted any additional wear at the valves that might have occurred from E20.

The E20 blend they created is so far beyond worst case scenario it's not even funny. They added acid to lower the pH, put in quite a few oddball chemicals I don't even understand. Doubled the maximum amount of water that is allowed and STILL. The engines took it like a champ.

Statistically, very little conclusions can be drawn from the entire study IMHO.

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Have you guys heard anything about having to buy at least 4 gallons of E-15 as it becomes available?  I can only seem to find it on wingnut sites.

 

I read that they were going to require that much as a minimum purchase to ensure that you knew you were buying E15.  Not sure that will work.

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