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dan45mcc

Johnny you have a Kit for the Prius C (53 MPG)

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Still deciding on what to trade the HHR in on and the Prius C just might fit the bill ...  Mainly City driving so what best City MPG.. really like the Chevy Cruze but we're talking double the MPG in town with the Prius and they start at $19,500.. (oops just seen the base model starts at $18,500 !)

 

 

My wife has run E85 in the HHR since we got it almost 2 years ..not sure she'd be real comfortable splash blending so probably best throwing a conversion kit on.. So Johnny you think you'll have anything for the 1.5

 

 

1.5-Liter Aluminum DOHC 16-Valve with Variable Valve Timing with intelligence (VVT-i), EV [1]/ECO modes; 73 hp @ 4800 rpm (54 kW @ 4800 rpm), 82 lb.-ft. @ 4000 rpm (111 N•m @ 4000 rpm); 99 hybrid system net hp (74 kW)

 

 

http://electricvehicles.cc/forum/index.php/topic,26.0.html

 

 

http://www.toyota.com/priusc/specs.html

 

 

 

 

 

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Looks like the kit will work. Shows port injection so you should be good to go. Let me know. ;D

 

 

Looks like it will be June before they start getting to the dealers..test drive goes good and you have a kit for it ..that's probably the path we are going to go.. Really like the Chevy Cruze as well but geez for roughly same money double the MPG with the Prius C

 

 

 

 

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While I'm sure the kit could fire the injection fine, I would only offer a word of caution about the hybrid system...It might pay to do a little research to see if others are running E85 in the Prius and what their experience has been.

 

We tried a bit of blending in our Honda Insight (admittedly a slightly different hybrid system).  But on blends as low as E20 to E30, we ran into trouble.  The fuel injectors alone could easily compensate for the blend, but something was causing the engine to be slightly down on power...  ignition timing ?, the fact the engine is very precisely designed for gasoline combustion ?, something else?

 

It only affected the engine slightly, but when you only have ~60hp, every bit matters.  It caused the system to rely just a bit more on the battery pack which then drained to the point the computer put the car in 'forced charge' mode, basically charging the battery off the gas engine and cutting power even further...which really made us step on the gas to get any acceleration / keep up to speed.  The end result was the mpg going WAY down...from a bit over 60 to the low 30's.  So we ended the experiment.

 

At least for us, it seemed keeping up with the fuel demands was only part of the equation and the system was so precisely designed for gasoline, even a slight amount of alcohol threw it out of balance and resulted in very low mpg. 

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Does the Prius run on E85?  YES.  Go to this link: http://www.greenenergynetwork.com/media/studies/prius-e85.PDF

and read about the 2003 Prius that ran on E85 without any "add-on-kit".

This is the photo (blurry) of that vehicle:

    creede85PriusLargee-mailview.jpg     

that said, the E85 add on kit will ensure you do not trip the check engine light.

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No offense meant, but a 2003 Prius doesn't really equate 2012 Prius C, IMHO.  I wouldn't expect that just because one can run E85, the other can as well.  It could very well be that all hybrid systems within a car company are the same, but I'd expect there has been some changes in the past decade.  I also wasn't aware the C had hit the public yet?  Maybe 6 people have already purchased and converted them, though.  If so, it's great to hear they can run on the kit.

 

As I said, our '00 Insight is different as well, so the converse could equally be true - maybe our experience was unique to that system.  You may get away with it in a C perfectly fine...but the battery has been (and I expect will be for the foreseeable future) the Achilles heel of hybrid cars.  It's my opinion that even a small amount of extra stress could put it in an early grave over a few years of use...not to worry if you have a good battery warranty.  (Luckily, our Insight battery died 97,000 miles into a 100,000 mile warranty...so the $5,300 replacement cost was waived!)

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While I'm sure the kit could fire the injection fine, I would only offer a word of caution about the hybrid system...It might pay to do a little research to see if others are running E85 in the Prius and what their experience has been.

 

We tried a bit of blending in our Honda Insight (admittedly a slightly different hybrid system).  But on blends as low as E20 to E30, we ran into trouble.  The fuel injectors alone could easily compensate for the blend, but something was causing the engine to be slightly down on power...  ignition timing ?, the fact the engine is very precisely designed for gasoline combustion ?, something else?

 

It only affected the engine slightly, but when you only have ~60hp, every bit matters.  It caused the system to rely just a bit more on the battery pack which then drained to the point the computer put the car in 'forced charge' mode, basically charging the battery off the gas engine and cutting power even further...which really made us step on the gas to get any acceleration / keep up to speed.  The end result was the mpg going WAY down...from a bit over 60 to the low 30's.  So we ended the experiment.

 

At least for us, it seemed keeping up with the fuel demands was only part of the equation and the system was so precisely designed for gasoline, even a slight amount of alcohol threw it out of balance and resulted in very low mpg.

 

 

Corey the Prius C can operate in EV modes to 25 MPH...that should be enough to get up to speed without stressing the engine and maintaining MPG..that's the thought anyways

 

 

Sure would be nice to rent one for a few days first ...

 

 

Yep they wont be available until summer

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Accelerating to 25 mph from a stop in EV mode is going to irritate people behind you. I'm sure you're used to MUCH faster acceleration.

 

FWIW, the Escapes can do EV to 45 mph now.

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Corey the Prius C can operate in EV modes to 25 MPH...that should be enough to get up to speed without stressing the engine and maintaining MPG..that's the thought anyways

Sure would be nice to rent one for a few days first ...

 

Yep they wont be available until summer

 

Re: recent boldface "...'without' a kit."

 

That is understood - the only point I'm trying to make is that running an engine on E85 (kit or not) does not necessarily equate to keeping the entire hybrid drive happy as a system.  We never set a CEL or other warning light on the Insight either, though the system as a whole was obviously very unhappy about the change.

 

Dan, I understand the EV mode, too - but it was exactly the EV / electric assist mode which was hurting us.  I don't have hard/fast numbers, but it seemed the engine was relying on the electric assist maybe 10% more than it normally would when any type of power / acceleration was required. (And I'm not talking about tire squealing acceleration - just keeping up with traffic, ascending a gentle hill, or pulling away from a stoplight at about 50% the acceleration of 'normal' traffic. But decelerating from any speed still only regenerates a given amount of power which is the same regardless of fuel.

 

It seems as though the battery charge controller expected to use a given amount of power for acceleration and get a certain amount of power from regenerative braking, but the slight dip in engine power threw this off.  It was as if the car was forever climbing a small hill / using battery and never got to the downhill 'regenerative' side.

 

Maybe today's charge controllers are smarter or even adaptive to the situation.  I know people have even 'hacked' the Insight charge controller to allow a user to dial in more and or 'smarter' control...ie if you have a huge downhill on your trip, it makes sense to approach it with the battery running low, then convert the downhill to charge as opposed to force-charging the battery only to arrive at the hill fully charged and ride the mechanical brakes or downshift and compression brake all the way down. 

 

The only other approach was to use extremely(!) gentle throttle and/or downshift a lot to keep the car out of battery 'assist' mode.  Maybe some people manage this section better than I do as well...I consider 1/2 mile of level ground to get up to 30mph to be practically intolerable.  Though if a person drives over relatively flat ground and is accepting of the slow acceleration in exchange for not using the battery, then they might not notice anything amiss with the hybrid systems.

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