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dan45mcc

RFA telling Retailers to Replace E85 with E15

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From my experience, don't overestimate or underestimate bureaucrats. ;)

 

The E15 will more than likely end up replacing midgrade, far more market penetration and easier integration, IMHO. E85 pumps just don't have near the amount of coverage as the midgrade pumps. Plus who actually uses the midgrade anyway? ::)

 

Even better if Regular was changed to E10 and Premium was only Reformulated Gasoline w/o Ethanol. That would soften the PR blow they are getting from the certification of E15, something Ethanol groups need to be more mindful of. >:(

 

Although, I admit it would be weird to see midgrade selling for less than Regular...it's the best compromise from my non-existent knowledge in this area.

 

I'm just trying to be realistically positive...

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If they pull the E85 out in my area, I'm buying a Volt.

Period.

 

I'd be building a still setup like Thumpn has out on my father/brother's farm... screw OPEC, screw their whore of a partner in crime the ethanol industry!  Screw them all... >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(

 

This could be why the NE Ethanol board has been sitting on the news I gave them about the new station open in Omaha at 144th street/I80 for over a month...  They REALLY don't honestly care! :'(

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have you ever brewed ethanol using waste breads/pastries... or waste carbonated soda?  I know that you CAN use breads/pastries (loaded with carbs and sugars...) with minimal processing/cooking/enzymes...

 

But was curious about soda pop?  I was just curious if you had a c-store drain pan (grated area under the dispensers that spillage drains down to)  piped to a 55 gallon drum, if you could use this slightly sweetened mostly water as your water to mix with the other ingredients... basically a sugar fortified water... have to boost the SG of the wash...  I'd think that the acids would be pretty dilute when you figure in all the melted ice in there as well...

 

I always wondered if you had a pick up route to the area grocery stores to pick up waste breads/pastries and waste fruits... that you could probably easily produce all you need for 0 feedstock costs... other then supplying these places with barrels (used) and the fuel from picking them up.

 

Convert a pickup to run on hydrous ethanol... and that cost would not only be cheap... but would also be a tax deductible "business expense"  ;D

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get the PH right for the yeast you are using and the runoff from pop machines would work great. Lots of sugar in some soft drinks. A friend of mine in Wisconsin, a cranberry farmer near Madison, makes ethanol from old bread and waste paper. I need to call him about some enzymes this spring. I showed them how to set up and run a small still a few years back. I have been concentrating on building ethanol engines and modifying carbs/fuel systems more than fuel production. With the price of gas, and the engine being done and ready to go, this year should be geared more towards fuel. I need about 1000 gallons total to do the testing and getting the GTO to run best on it.

 

I have a couple friends at the local grocers who bring me spoiled fruit, I can get a ton of it if I want it. Different ones have different yields, and you mainly have to watch the PH and add yeast. The thing about doing that is if you dont have the capacity to process and ferment all of it within a couple days, it starts to rot and go bad pretty quick. Usually it takes a 55 gallon drum three or four days to ferment if you can regulate the temps around 85F. If its colder then it takes longer, if hotter the yeast die off over 95F or so.

 

Knowing the sugar content of the fruit is the key, that way you know how much water to use. If you get too much sugar and not enough water, then you will lose it when the yeast saturate the mash with alcohol and die off. Too much water without enough sugar and you waste energy distilling a light batch. Shipping pallets are often free for the taking and they make nice heat, just watch out for nails in the ash. They burn hot and fast, most are treated so dont breathe the smoke if you can help it.

 

The same mods needed to run E85 are what you do for HE100, slight fuel trim variances but for the most part it will work. The one sticking point with making your own is if you use it on the highway you have to pay road tax. That is one of the things they get the waste cooking oil guys on. If it is used onsite then you dont have to pay road tax, and you dont have to denature it.

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very interesting...

 

I used to brew a lot of beer and wine when I was in college and just out of college... so adjusting the ph, and using a hydrometer to get the specific gravity up to where you want to produce the maximum alcohol content your yeast can handle... that is not a problem...

 

If you have a wort (un-fermented sweet sugar/water mixture) that is too "heavy" that means that there are more sugars then your yeast can consume... you simply add water to thin it down... or else you are going to be distilling un-fermented sugars, and throwing these away.

 

If your wort is too "light" that means there is too much water, and like you said, you will be distilling extra water for less ethanol end product... simply add more sugars.  For this project, I'd have a barrel of beet molasses on hand for quick adjustments... simply add sugars till the Specific Gravity comes up to the point.

 

Would your fermented "beer" be stable enough to keep... so you could ferment several barrels as you have more feedstock, then finish the process by distilling when you had the time to do that?

 

The "fermentation side" of it I have no problem wrapping my head around, simply different feedstock, same process but on larger scale.  As a brewing friend of mine once put it "you can make wine or beer out of anything from grapes to corn to dirty socks, it is just a matter of what it tastes like!"  With ethanol, taste is not an issue...  your car will run the same weather it is distilled from corn, sugar, barley, grass clippings, corn cobs or fine pino noir....  chemically the end product is all the same.

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as for de-naturing hydrous ethanol, isn't there a buttering agent you can add to denature it?  For completely dry anhydrous ethanol/100%/200 proof (like the big boys make...) you can use gasoline for the denaturent, but when it is wet like 180/160 proof (90-80% ethanol/10-20% water) you can't use gas as they separate...

 

As for road tax, how do you accurately pay this and not leave yourself up to future arbitrary tax dodging prosecution...

 

For e85, between our two cars and the lawnmower ;) we use around 1,200 gallons of fuel a year. About 100 gallons a month.  Wow, never crunched the numbers... that seems like a lot!

 

I don't know how much HE 180 that would equate out to, but assuming that this takes a bit more then e85, I'd be looking at needing to make around 30 gallons a week, assuming 10% alcohol, I'd need to process about 300 gallons of 10% beer a week!  Are my numbers off?  This seems like quite a lot.  That would be 6 50 gallon drums of 10% beer.  This is where a "turbo yeast" that could do 20% would pay for itself really quick!

 

Really need to find myself an acreage where I can do this in the barn through the week!  Would be a great science project for my very smart and not very challenged or motivated 8 1/2 year old...

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Ethyl acetate, acetone are soluble in water, ethanol and gasoline and can be used for denaturation of hydrous ethanol fuel. Also they have lower flashpoint and will slightly increase cold start properties of ethanol.

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This is really good....replace clean fuels with more toxic fuels...good idea.

Who decided that?  This kind of misdirection is deadly....We don't currently

have easy access to E85, badmouth it at every turn,  control production and access to it, and now we want to REDUCE it?  E85 is the worst nightmare for BigToxicOil. Almost every car made today can run on it w/o

any mods(above 32degrees F) yet your congressmans says otherwise.

  I suggest anyone interested in expanding their knowledge about this superior fuel is to read the book by David Blume "Alcohol can be a Gas"  Good technical reading on mods and production including homemade stills and inputs....this mans life was threatened by bigoil Jackals when he

suggestsed that alcohol can REPLACE toxic fuels...tyvm....

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