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deckhand

Running E85 with no conversion

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1) 1999 ford E-250 extended work van 5.4L triton..60/40 with no problems

 

2) 1998 Pontiac Montana 3.8L V6...50/50 runs the best it ever has

 

3) 2000 Buick Park Avenue 3.8L V6...50/50 runs great

 

Remember to change your fuel filter after 2 or 3 tanks of blend

 

UPDATE:

I pushed my 1998 Montana to 70/30 before I got a CEL.

I cleared the light put in 3 gal. of gas and all is good.

So, I can run 60/40 in the van..

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Happy New Year, All

 

Question:  Could the fact that the flex-fuel Impala did so much better on the 20% ethanol blend have something to do with how the FF handled exhaust gasses?

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The catalytic converters on FF vehicles should be near identical to non-FF.  The only change might be to move them closer to the engine or install pre-cats due to the lower EGT when running ethanol.  This wouldn't really effect mileage however. 

 

I'm sure the difference was the tuning of the ECU.  The higher NOx amounts from the non-FF Impala running on E20 indicate that it was running slightly leaner than the FF Impala on E20.  Leaner isn't always better in terms of mileage. 

 

I'm sure one of the reasons my mileage is significantly lower on E50 is due to it being at the limit of fuel trim and running lean.  I know that when running EXX you can run slightly lean without worrying about engine damage, however as noted in other threads here, too lean will actually hurt MPG.  I'm going to throw in higher flow injectors in a week or two and run the same E50 mixure.  It will be interesting to see how mileage is effected on the same E50.

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I'm sure the difference was the tuning of the ECU.  The higher NOx amounts from the non-FF Impala running on E20 indicate that it was running slightly leaner than the FF Impala on E20.  Leaner isn't always better in terms of mileage. 

 

Rower I am seeing nearly identical mpgs (as with 87 octane) running e50-e60 on my Suzuki Aerio.. I just tried to run full E85 again (E70 winter blend) .. partly because I needed to verify / I couldn't believe I was still running E60 without throwing a CEL .. anyway so yep within 2 days of running at least E70 I threw a CEL .

 

So in your opinion why is it some of us are able to run e50-e60 range with little measurable loss of MPGS ..stock compression 9.3 but also consider this car has a 100k miles on it.

 

I'm also switching to larger injectors ..but not sure if it really makes sense for this vehicle considering I am getting good mileage anyways and can run e60 with no issues ..actually closer to e65 .  I'll make the switch anyways just for testing purposes but really if I was joe down the street that just wanted to run some less expensive fuel and wasn't promoting E85 ..I'd just keep running e60 in it..I'm saving basically 50 cents gallon

 

 

 

 

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That's awesome that you're not gettin much mileage loss.  I've noticed there are many others on this board that report the same thing.  I have a '94 Acura Vigor (5 cylinder) with near 200k on it.  On E10 I get about 24mpg and on E50 about 18mpg.  Thats a 25% loss which I guess was more than I expected.  I'm constantly learning (as we all are) about how engines manage the ethanol mixtures, ignition advance, etc.  I'm hoping with new injectors I'll be able to run E85 and not get more than a 20-25% loss overall.

 

Already gave my car a thorough tune-up.  Runs very well.  No oil burning.  Cleaned throttle body, adjusted valves, new timing belt, new plugs.  Plugs look like they had been in there forever however no indication of running rich or lean on any cylinder.  The only other thing I might tackle that's been shown to increase mileage on older Acuras is cleaning the EGR valve.  Gotta change the fuel filter also as I've run 1500+ miles on E50+/-.

 

My stock injectors are 235cc.  I'm going to drop in 275cc injectors from an Eagle/Mitsu Talon/Eclipse that I got cheap/used off eBay.  The ECU seems to handle cruise fuel trim fine with E50 (actually running about E55 on this tank), so I figure the extra 17% fuel flow should get me to E85, along with helping cold starting.  If cold starting is still an issue I plan on installing an adjustable fuel pressure regulator.  Even with the regulator costs the "conversion" will be under $150 overall (including my failed IAT experiment).

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2003 Toyots Sequoia running first tank of approx. E47 and everything is working great. I have almost run thru my first tank, will fill up tomorrow so I can double check mileage. Performance of the truck is great, no problems starting or aything else. If this keeps working as well as it is, I will try my new Corvette on a similiar mix this spring.

 

 

 

UPDATE 1/19/08

 

NEWS FLASH!!!!!

 

I have run thru my first tank of approx. E47, Experienced no problems, Normal Chicago Driving, Short trips and a couple rides downtown. Gas mileage was 14.1 MPG.

 

I then ran a tank of regular gas, I tried to duplicate my driving as close as possible to when I was running on the tank of E47. To my surprise my mileage was less  13.5 MPG.

 

I experienced zero problems, no check engine lights, no problems with starting, wasn't sluggish, very cold here in Chicago today also -3 this AM. I refilled the tank with approx. E47 again. I'm going to try and run a 1000 miles on E47 and check the overall mileage, and then I'm going to run a 1000 miles on regular gas to do another comparison.

 

E85 Prices here in Chicago seem to be a touch on the High Side compared to alot of other location. Gas City needs to cut  the E85 price, they also seem to avg. about .10-.15 cents a gallon higher in their gas prices compared to the surrounding gas stations. Today 87 octane is running 3.25 a gallon at Gas City, and a number of stations with in a mile or so of this station the price is 2.11 to 2.15 a gallon for 87 Octane. E85 is running at 2.75, they always price the E85  .50 cents below what they are selling 87 Octane for.

 

From my first experience with E47, I think Bush should double the % to E20 from E10 Over night, make it part of the stimulus package just announced. I know.... wishful thinking but he could probably go to E30 and everything would be fine. That's the sense I get from reading a lot on this site.

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