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HuskerFlex

Our Efficiency is Improving.... Is Yours?

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with yields constantly on the increase, and ethanol conversion rates constantly on the increase...  these numbers only stand to KEEP increasing.

 

Oil will still yield the same in the future...

 

Throw in cellulosic ethanol and these numbers are even better.

 

How many tons of corn stover/acre do you suppose POET is taking off of IA corn fields for their pilot plant?  How many gallons of ethanol per ton of stover?  Add THIS to the total...

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I like to see big efficiency gains! ;D But they neglected to mention that EROI for Corn Ethanol was negative in the 70's. :D They can do better than that.

 

Im not so sure it was negative back then, since the only study done was the obviously biased Pimental one backed by oil companies. Highlights include basing distillation on beverage production, needing a JD 9620 to farm 30 acres and it would only last ten years doing it, and just made up stuff to skew the results the way he wanted it.

 

It is nice we are improving though, cant wait to see how the engine tests come out this summer.

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the only study done was the obviously biased Pimental one backed by oil companies.

 

 

It is shocking how often this corupt loon's very dated and highly biased/flawed "research" is sited by anti-ethanol folks....

 

I guess, it it confirms your pre-consieved biases... then it MUST be true...

 

Reminds me of a quote... I think it was from Harry Truman...

 

"There are 3 different kinds of lies...  Lies, Damned lies, and statistics"

 

that and

 

"If you repeat a lie often enough, it becomes a fact"

 

The anti-ethanol lobby (funded by oil $) has made a centruy long living of BOTH of these.

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Pimental's work is originally from the 70's and it's not like there was another concrete source for Ethanol efficiency from that time. So like it or not he is most likely where the OP advertisers got their "improved efficiency numbers."

 

And it wasn't Truman that originally said that quote. Mark Twain started it by "paraphrasing" a British Prime Minister Benjamin Disraeli, that never reportedly said such a thing. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lies,_damned_lies,_and_statistics.

 

“The problem with quotes on the Internet is that you can't always be sure of their authenticity.” ~ Abraham Lincoln

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Well the difference is the average yield per acre has increased and that is regardless of what Pimental said. Its something that has been tracked for a long time, so we can see the improvement easily. With better process, improved yeast, and more efficient/effective enzymes, we can make more fuel with the same amount of corn, and that is verifiable. What isnt verifiable is how much of a difference there is on EROEI, because nobody had been tracking that for decades until the 70s. Basing it off the peer rejected BS he produced would lead you to believe it used to be terrible, when really it wasnt.

 

The fact still remains, oil is very negative on EROEI when it comes to gasoline and diesel and hasnt changed much if any in the last 40 years. Gasoline is also less efficient than ethanol simply because more than 80% of the fuel's energy goes to waste heat, rather than powering the vehicle. That will be difficult to improve upon as well, simply due to how gasoline burns and its limited properties that negatively affect efficiency. You cant run the engines hotter without expensive exotic materials, and you cant raise compression enough to make a marked difference due to preigition. Direct injection is an attempt to add the fuel very late in an effort to limit preignition allowing higher compression, but it is still very limited on returns, simply because of the properties of gasoline.

 

In short we are nearing the limit of efficiency with gasoline, and any further gains will be quite small. That still doesnt change the lack of improvement in refining.

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And it wasn't Truman that originally said that quote. Mark Twain started it by "paraphrasing" a British Prime Minister Benjamin Disraeli, that never reportedly said such a thing. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lies,_damned_lies,_and_statistics.

 

“The problem with quotes on the Internet is that you can't always be sure of their authenticity.” ~ Abraham Lincoln

 

 

point taken... at least I prefaced it that "I thought it was truman..."  Twain would have been my second guess...  reguardless of who originated it... it is very true.  If you manipulate the variables, and skew your interpretation... you can find/create stats to proove/disproove about anything!

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Certainly Thumpin. There has been plenty of progress with Ethanol, especially in the last 10 years, and it still has room for improvement!

 

point taken... at least I prefaced it that "I thought it was truman..."  Twain would have been my second guess...  reguardless of who originated it... it is very true.  If you manipulate the variables, and skew your interpretation... you can find/create stats to proove/disproove about anything!

 

If you take something merely on it's face value, you're ignoring it's true value.

Statistics are merely a tool, how they are acquired and how they are used is what corrupts them.

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