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dan45mcc

Ethanol More Expensive than Gasoline

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Amen to that Brother Jonny!

 

Funny how financial support (credits/subsidies/loopholes...) for one industry are "helping to keep energy affordable"... but similar (but MUCH SMALLER) supports for a competing industry are seen as "corporate welfare"...

 

I'd like to see ALL energy industries competing on a level playing field.  You can not tell me that all those financial supports the oil industry gets are the only thing that keeps them profitable.... to use the same line that is used against ethanol... "if it is such a good fuel, it should stank on it's own in the free market"...  It is disgusting how this logic is selectively applied for political/economic gain.

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  Biggest problem is the 100s of Billions we spend on big oil subsidies and protectionism.  Until that is yanked Ethanol hasn't got a chance without help fromits own.  We used to be against Monopolies.  :41:

 

 

Come on John ..what Part of Ethanol is selling for MORE than Gasoline that you are having a problem understanding?  :017:  That's what the Ethanol Industry wants ..that's how they Make Money..Mandate 12.6 Billion Gallons and then sell at the highest Price possible

 

 

Quit pissing in everyone's gasoline (e10) and start promoting Ethanol as an Alternative Fuel like E85

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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I have talked to many in the ethanol industry. Most plant operators do want to make money so they can expand. More so is the fact that the majority  would rather see their ethanol go towards higher blends which is why the coalition was formed.  This industry was going great until the Tea party grab hold of the few seats and are controling all of congress.  Complaint about a few billion but continuing to hand over the house to Big Oil and big corps.  There are more permits issued for drilling now than the last 30 years yet the Repubs keep saying Obama is holding back drilling.  This government needs to be we the people again not we the corporations.

My rant is over for  the day.

 

-Why not convert to flex and f%*k oil!

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-Why not convert to flex and f%*k oil!

 

I will agree on that part.

 

One thing that attracts me to the Tea Party folks is their "small government" approach... something that the GOP has slipped away from.  Conservative should not be about "supporting the rich and big business"...  sorry to get off into a political rant, but both sides of the isle are rampant with insider deals where the WRONG things (for the country) are being done in the name of kick-backs, back scratching and mandated profits...

 

I had hoped that the Tea Party would be a breath of fresh air, bringing in a new cleaner bunch of officials. 

 

Like many of revolutionaries... it appears that many have succumbed to the temptations of power.  When in Rome... (or DC)...

 

I still have hope.  "Vote the bums out" should always be a constant motto every year!  Corrupt/incompetent/greedy officials should always be voted out... regardless of their connections/contributors...  ideally.

 

I'd like to see more competition for incumbents within their party.  This is the major challenge.  If you have a solidly x-party (doesn't matter) candidate, they virtually get to serve at their leisure as long as they wish... not good democracy.

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One thing that attracts me to the Tea Party folks is their "small government" approach... something that the GOP has slipped away from.  Conservative should not be about "supporting the rich and big business"...  sorry to get off into a political rant, but both sides of the isle are rampant with insider deals where the WRONG things (for the country) are being done in the name of kick-backs, back scratching and mandated profits...

 

I had hoped that the Tea Party would be a breath of fresh air, bringing in a new cleaner bunch of officials. 

 

Like many of revolutionaries... it appears that many have succumbed to the temptations of power.  When in Rome... (or DC)...

 

I still have hope.  "Vote the bums out" should always be a constant motto every year!  Corrupt/incompetent/greedy officials should always be voted out... regardless of their connections/contributors...  ideally.

 

I'd like to see more competition for incumbents within their party.  This is the major challenge.  If you have a solidly x-party (doesn't matter) candidate, they virtually get to serve at their leisure as long as they wish... not good democracy.

 

Excellent post!  Agreed on all parts.

 

The thing is though, along with the Tea Party candidates succumbing to the temptations of power, is what I call "consensus thinking."  I would describe it as the idea that there is a, for lack of a better term, "popular" way to view particular issues within a particular group.  In order to fit in with the particular group, you need to accept a whole group of positions on various issues.  It all comes as a package deal.  In that way, people that wouldn't otherwise have a clue on any particular issue, or may have even taken the opposite position had they bothered to think for themselves, are taking a stand on it because that's what they are told is right.  This is very dangerous.  All it takes is a few "plants" from "concerned parties" to change the opinion of the group.

 

The problem is that the current consensus thinking with regards to ethanol is that it is a bad thing.  They don't take the time to research it for themselves, because the thinking is already done for them.  Who is doing the thinking for them?  I think we all know the answer to that.

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I remember in Psychology class, that this is called "Group Think"... where everyone assumes that everyone is thinking one way, and fears stepping out of line, and rocking the boat... when in actuality many are thinking the same thought... and no one steps forward.

 

This was studied after the "Bay of Pigs" fiasco with the young JFK administration in the early '60s.  After the fact, everyone that was in those meetings knew that it was a bad idea and was poorly planned and should have been revised, or dumped... but at the time, no one voiced these concerns as they were afraid of being "soft of communism" or in voicing their ignorance in front of others...  so they all signed off on it in spite of their better judgment.

 

An interesting mix of history and psychology.

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I think we need a better term for it.  "Consensus thinking" doesn't work because half of it is wrong.  Consensus is right, but they are not thinking.  What they are is in a trance.  Therefore, the right term would be "Consensus trance," right?

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James, (nice venn- diagram!)

 

IMHO... all the points you have listed as "pissing off the occupiers".... could also fit many tea-party supporters...

 

Talk to any "tea party person" and ask them about the "too big to fail" banks, auto companies, mortgage companies... and the bailouts that were used to prop up these massive, and massively corrupt, and massively inefficient PRIVATE companies... and you'd get the same "let them fail"... response that the occupiers would scream.

 

Both groups have many of the same complaints with businesses and corruption (though different on opinions of government size and programs)

 

What the major (HUGE) difference is in HOW they see that the problem should be fixed.

 

The capitalists free market tea-party folks believe that the free-market should dictate the success or failure of a company or industry.  Not the government.  This only encourages kickbacks, paybacks and cronyism.

 

The largely socialists command market occupy folks believe that the government should regulate businesses MORE to prevent abuses and stop corruption.  Good businesses should be rewarded/subsidized, bad ones should be regulated and limited.

 

Making some generalizations, but in all this is what I see.  Different folks reacting differently to the same problem, visioning different solutions to these same problems based on their philosophical/ideological differences.

 

This is really a massive combination of economics, government, sociology, philosophy... and for those that study history, a chance to see many parallels to other revolutionary periods of time, some of which we would NOT want to see repeated in OUR country!

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Lets get back on topic guys ..close to splitting the thread

 

 

The Price Between Ethanol and Gasoline has widened a bit.. ethanol is 20 cents less and has been in that range the past 4-5 days now..still not wide enough but better as the corn harvest come in. Still looking for a good commodities feed (that includes corn, oil ,ethanol)for the forum so we dont need to keep cutting and pasting ..but in the meantime ...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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