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rusty70f100

Lets go on the offensive!

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I've been thinking more, recently, about the whole ethanol political situation, and the political landscape as a whole.  I think I've developed some ideas that could be useful.

 

Let me begin with a few observations:

 

1. I've noticed that the "tea party" and the small government contingent has grown exponentially, recently. (I should know, I'm one of them...)

2. The debt is growing to unsustainable proportions, stirring up the people mentioned in #1.

3. Said people are against subsidies, but are usually pro-oil.

4. People of both sides are against the foreign wars.  There are many reasons for this, but one of the big ones is oil.

5. It looks like ethanol is losing it's subsidies at some point in the near future.

6. The oil industry gets a lot of subsidies in many forms, including loan guarantees, and military intervention (foreign oil wars.)

 

We really need to start reminding these people in point #1 about the drawbacks of oil.  This is how we do it:

 

1. Show them the tremendous costs of oil subsidies.

2. Tell them that support for oil is support for big government.

3. Tell them that support for oil is un-American.

4. Show them that oil wars are a tremendous subsidy.

5. Show them that ethanol would work great if the government would get out of the way and quit subsidizing oil.

6. Tell them that with a level playing field, meaning no oil subsidies, a healthy non-subsidized ethanol industry would develop, bringing money back into this country.  It's your patriotic duty to support ethanol, and thereby support our people, by eliminating oil subsidies!

 

What we're doing here is attacking the other end of the problem.  The reason ethanol can't compete with oil, without subsidies, is that oil is a subsidized fuel.  We just need to remind them of that.

 

Some people, such as Ron Paul, have the right idea.  Get out of the middle east and end the oil subsidies.  This, as far as I can tell, would be a tremendous win for ethanol.  On a level playing field, it can and will succeed.

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Amen brother Rusty!  Could not agree more...  Government is too big, to powerful, and too expensive, driving out debt to unsustainable levels.  Cutting subsidies (to ethanol AND oil) would help drive down the expenses of government (and increase revenues since most subsidies are tax breaks)... it would level the playing field, reduce red tape and regulations which would in the end encourage businesses.

 

Right now, why would you want to invest $ in a new start up ethanol industry, with an uncertain future of the industry?  Level the playing field (for all fuels) and let the market get to work....  when markets work... people work.  When people work, America works!

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I've been trying to do this on some of the other forums I go to. I even go back as far as 1953 when the CIA helped get rid of Iranian leader Mohammad Mossedegh when he was going to nationalize the oil industry. That would have put an end to Britain stealing the oil basically, so he had to go.

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very true, as a history buff and connoisseur of all things history, I have to agree.  Our addition to oil has caused us to depose democratic governments, install/support dictators and fuel religiously motivated terrorists in the greater middle east region going back to the 1950s as you mentioned...

 

Going back even further... imagine if Standard Oil hadn't been allowed to torpedo the Farm Chemurgy movement in the 1930s?  Would have helped us out of the depression sooner, had a more diverse fuel supply leading into WWII...  Imagine how much further the ethanol industry would have been when the oil crisis hit in the early 70s... if they were not trying to build from the ground up an ethanol/alt fuel industry?  Imagine if they had used the previous 40 years to develop more efficient fermentation and distillation processes... we would now most likely be talking about "5th generation" ethanol...

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Here's another person most people don't know about--- Smedley Butler.

"I spent 33 years and four months in active military service and during that period I spent most of my time as a high class muscle man for Big Business, for Wall Street and the bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism. I helped make Mexico and especially Tampico safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefit of Wall Street. I helped purify Nicaragua for the International Banking House of Brown Brothers in 1902-1912. I brought light to the Dominican Republic for the American sugar interests in 1916. I helped make Honduras right for the American fruit companies in 1903. In China in 1927 I helped see to it that Standard Oil went on its way unmolested. Looking back on it, I might have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his racket in three districts. I operated on three continents."

Today on the Lew Rockwell website

The armed mobs of gun-waving Libyans merely provided a useful cover for the substantial Western intervention. It will be interesting watching these Western powers jostle for power and control of Libya’s high-grade oil. France and Italy are traditional rivals in North Africa, notably in Tunisia and Libya. Britain and Italy are Libya’s former colonial rulers – unless one also counts the Turks. The United States once had its largest foreign airbase, Wheelus Field, in Libya.

 

How the mixed bag of anti-Gadaffi exiles and militant Islamists will run the new regime remains unknown. The Western powers will certainly exercise much control over the new government and reap oil riches as a result.

http://lewrockwell.com/margolis/margolis254.html

 

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It certainly requires some creative thinking if the Tea party ever gets any bigger. The subsidy approach is going to go out of style real fast if a libertarian is elected President.

 

I've always been shocked by the "Drill, baby, Drill" mantra and the complete hatred or simply disdain for anything but domestic Oil. Sure we need more domestic fuel production by why do people believe it only require drilling more wells? We tapped out our Refinery production years ago and we now import Gasoline too! I have even read of some Oil, albeit in small amount) being exported only to be re-imported as Gasoline! ???

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Think about this: It's not that government is too big or that a subsidy is bad - among other things, we wouldn't have electric or phone service in rural areas if it were not for subsidies.  What is bad, and what should be banned - is corporations and/or rich people contributing to political candidates and then expecting something in return; this is called corruption in any other country.  Our political system and our democracy has been hijacked by Big Corporations and a few rich people - get money out of politics period!  Then you will see change.  By the way, I haven't heard one Tea Party member who would support any alternative fuel - except the few on this board. 

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I think what you're seeing in the lack of Tea Party support for alternative fuels is people who can't be bothered to think for themselves.  Not that that's exclusive of the Tea Party, it's endemic in our society, no matter where you are in politics.

 

(begin rant) If there's one thing I really can't stand it's people who blindly follow the party line.  Be it the Democrat party, the Republican party, or the Tea Party.  People really need to learn how to think, not what to think. (end rant)

 

This is why getting the message out as I pointed out in my original post, is so important.  They could all be on our side, if we just showed them that it fits their goals.  See, smaller government is an idealistic goal.  Their support for oil is a more specific goal.  When we show them that support for oil is incompatible with their goal of smaller government, then they will become useful to us.

 

Edit:  I'd like to see some specific data on oil subsidies that we can use.  We're going to have to back up our argument.

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I think the main problem is ethanol has been setting back saying "It's mandated and we're getting paid what do we give a F*@%"  They sure don't do much to push the product outside low level E blends.  Car manufacturers aren't much better...flex fuel engines go into mundane under powered/overweight sedans which are marketed to housewives and old men...the two groups who aren't likely to change their ways any time soon. [no offense meant to anyone who has one and actually uses its flex fuel capability]

 

You'd think ethanol would team up with aftermarket manufacturers, create some awesome performance cars.  Build something with an actual ethanol engine and let it burn the tires off / run circles around anything with gas.  Or build an entry level sporty car and let kids hot rod it.  That is where the true adaption of new ideas is taking place. 

 

Once the public got a taste of a true ethanol engine...mileage of a diesel...power of gasoline...fuel which is much cheaper than either and the best miles per dollar you'd find, there should be no stopping it.

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Pro-Ethanol groups have been doing things. Growth Energy is doing some senator writting campaigns and a few internet "comment" campaigns. The big problem is they are lobbists and come across as such. And they don't even pretend to hide the fact that they are heavily supported by the Corn Farmer groups.

 

In regards to the cool E85 cars there have been a few but they've been more engine focused rather than good examples of E85 cars. The Ford Coyote 5.0L was tested on E85 and gave astounding levels of power but the production version in the Mustang isn't even flexfuel capable. There are 3rd party E85 cars running around with badging advertising their E85 goodness. But the popular opinion seems to be that Ethanol is worse for the environment than Gasoline because it comes from Corn and that is the end of it. And thanks to California's CARB, Ethanol is believed to contribute to deforestation.

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