Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Corey872

UOA + E85 = Run it 8,000 miles

Recommended Posts

Drained my first fill of synthetic oil fill after 6,226 miles - no makeup oil (I think those rings are SEALED! - thanks motoman!) and grabbed a sample for used oil analysis.

 

Results look encouraging.  The classic wear metals were a bit high (iron, copper, lead) - though this oil has been in the engine since it was just 2700 miles old.  So probably a bit of cross contamination from break-in still.  Though aluminum is practically zero, so no wear from the massive amount of aluminum components or piston skirts.

 

They attribute silicon to sealant and sand cast parts.  Sealant I could see - but sand should be gone from any castings long ago.  Could possibly be a bit of dirt sneaking past my K&N style air filter too.  Those things are notorious for letting a bit by.

 

Moly was quite high - not that it's a bad thing, but probably a result of the coatings I put on the various parts.  TBN was 4.8, so still a lot of acid-busting power in the oil additive package.  Viscosity was right on and high flashpoint, so no fuel dilution.  Also no antifreeze or water to speak of.  Insolubles (dirt, soot, oxidation resins) were barely a trace, thanks to E85!

 

Overall, looks like I'll be running out to 8,000 miles on the next change.  Nice to know E85 allows running the turbo and extended oil intervals!

 

 

Oil after around 3,000 miles

3koil.jpg

This was a crappy/low res pic on my phone.  Just noticed the oil looks 'cloudy' compared to the clear photo below.  This is just an artifact of the low res - the oil was just as clear both times, just very slightly darker at 6k.

 

Oil at the 6,222 mile change interval

6koil.jpg

 

UOA Report - Right click, View image, for full size

6226oilreport.gif

 

Cross link to my BITOG thread

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2338792

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Many synthetics and some dinos are using Moly as an anti-wear replacement as they reduce the ZDDP levels for the API-SM/SN requirements.

 

But that level is pretty high even for that reason.  Are you using a racing formulation or one intended for street usage?  Is this one of the Mobil 1 racing oils?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is just plain 'ol M1 synthetic from Wal-mart.  Not a racing formula.  I suspect the extra moly is from the extreme pressure lube I buffed on the cylinder walls, wrist pins/journals, turbo bushings and a few other spots I've probably forgotten.  The piston skirts and thrust bearings also have an anti-friction coating which I suspect contains moly. 

 

The thrust bearing especially takes a lot of beating due to the higher clutch plate pressure on the XTSS clutch.  But I try to offset that by not 'riding' the clutch or setting with it depressed for long periods, etc.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Corey- do you or the lab have the same specs run on new oil for baseline changes in oil makeup? I have not used oil analysis for years but when we did we sent in a brand new oil sample for baseline if the lab did not have it. With Mobil 1 the lab would already have it- just would be interesting to see the comparison which would answer some questions on the moly, vis, and other items.

 

I would agree on the silicon Corey- silica in the air ingested will show up- suprised the lab did not mention this. Any drive on gravel roads, driving during very dry periods (you have a drought there -right?) even on hwy in rural areas in the spring before crops are established, regular daily runs thru construction areas will affect it.

 

We once lost three 2 stroke Detroit Diesels in one year- oil analysis would come back high in wear metals and extreme silicon. These were in 2 ag floater/spreaders which of course spent 95% of their time in the fields. We raised air intake to 15' , put on a pre-cleaner, kept losing engines and experiencing high silicon. Finally we found it- a tiny air compressor filter smaller than a push mower filter for air brakes/controls- the compressor shared the engine oil. When we would do the nightly wash down we were weakening the filter and it would split yet not be noticed.

 

Silicon also was used in the older green antifreeze but I do not know about the modern orange long life stuff.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'll shoot the lab an email Monday and see if they have something they can share.  Scanning the BITOG site, there are a couple posts on the virgin 5w30, though they seem a bit sketchy...12ppm Pb in a virgin oil?  The most credible seem to show moly around 80 in the new oil.  M1 racing seems to show about 1600 - so they really boost the moly up there - might have to look into that.

 

Silicon abounds around here...farm land, I pass a quarry 2x per day, gravel roads and they recently chipped/sealed the road on my 50 mile round trip commute to work, so it was a dust pit for months.  Plus, the engine doesn't use many actual gaskets - oil pan, timing cover and several other places only use silicone based gasket sealer - so I'm sure that can leach some silicon, too Actually, now that I think of it, surprised silicon isn't higher.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for reminding me.  The lab did not have a VOA they could share, but commented:

 

"...boron in Mobil 1 5W/30 usually starts out around 65 ppm.  Calcium reads around 2500, Phosphorus reads around 750 ppm  and Zinc reads around 850.  Molybdenum typically reads 120 ppm, so most of what we found here is from oil additive, and

chances are good most of the pre-lube you uses was washed out at the first oil change.  Yes, we typically see good results from K&N filters, and it looks like it's doing a good job here.  Most of the excess silicon is likely due to sealers used during engine assembly and should look better next time."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here is the next report in the series...put a little over 8800 miles on this oil.  It's good to see no water, antifreeze or fuel contamination in the oil at all.  Iron and copper are also trending down as break-in continues.  Curiously lead ticked up a bit.  This interval did see some more 'spirited' driving as I was exploring a bit more of the outer limits of turbo boost.

 

The car was also parked for approximately 3 months during the winter while I worked on some suspension issues.  Strangely, when I hit the road again, it needed a good 3-4 tanks of fuel before the mpg's crept back up to the pre-parking levels...almost like another mini engine break-in. 

 

I also noted to Blackstone, the thrust bearing in this engine takes a beating due to the higher spring pressure on the high performance clutch.  This may be one area where lead could enter the system. 

 

Even though I try to minimize 'riding' the clutch and don't sit with it held in for long periods of time, it's still required to depress the clutch to start the car...putting a high load on the bearing at the worst possible time.  Maybe I should wire in a bypass switch for starting...though I still need the clutch switch for launch control! :)

 

Even with 8800 miles and 10 months in the engine. There still seems to be a good amount of base reserve in the oil.  I suppose as long as there is any at all, the oil is still neutralizing acid - so looks like the oil could actually go even longer.

 

8800oilchange.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I know this is an older thread but I'm glad to hear your engine is running so good on E. Installing a momentary push bypass switch for startup sounds like a good idea, that way you can't leave it on and accidentally start your car into something, and you could very well reduce wear on that thrust bearing.

 

Not sure when I last posted here, but I got a "new" car, an 09 Civic Si, been running E85 for near 20k miles (car has 30k) and change my M1 around 7500mi each time. Haven't tested it yet, but glad to know a somewhat similar, but much higher performing engine seems to be keeping the oil in good shape.

 

I picked up a flashpro for this car about 3 months ago and I've been having a blast learning and tuning for full time E85 use. I'm probably getting my 98 Hatch back on the road soon and will probably end up buying Hondata's engine management for that also, having full control of fueling is something I won't be able to do without ever again.

 

Keep it up!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...