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bbesler

2008 Scion Turbo on E85

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I have been running my 2008 Scion tC on increasing E85 percentages over the last 400 miles or so.  I am full E85(which in MI right now is really E70).  I have had no check engine light or apparent reduction in power.  I'm keeping a close eye on my fuel mileage, since the is my first pure tank of E85.  The engine sounds the same at idle.  I mention that because when I tried E85 in my 2002 Civic, there was a pronounced valve noise and large reduction in acceleration.  My tC has has the TRD supercharger kit installed.  It is a turnkey package which is dealer installed with higher flow fuel injectors and a new ECU program which is designed  to handle "lean conditions" on wide open throttle.  I have done WOT on full E85 with no problem.  I suspect the supercharger mods are what is allowing the E85 to work, even though the tC is not a flex fuel vehicle.  My  scion tC has a stock 4 cyl Camray engine with the TRD supercharger kit.

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I have been running my 2008 Scion tC on increasing E85 percentages over the last 400 miles or so.  I am full E85(which in MI right now is really E70).  I have had no check engine light or apparent reduction in power.  I'm keeping a close eye on my fuel mileage, since the is my first pure tank of E85.  The engine sounds the same at idle.  I mention that because when I tried E85 in my 2002 Civic, there was a pronounced valve noise and large reduction in acceleration.  My tC has has the TRD supercharger kit installed.  It is a turnkey package which is dealer installed with higher flow fuel injectors and a new ECU program which is designed  to handle "lean conditions" on wide open throttle.  I have done WOT on full E85 with no problem.  I suspect the supercharger mods are what is allowing the E85 to work, even though the tC is not a flex fuel vehicle.  My  scion tC has a stock 4 cyl Camray engine with the TRD supercharger kit.

 

BUT- You'll burn the tires off that thing !!!!!!!!!  :P

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It is a turnkey package which is dealer installed with higher flow fuel injectors and a new ECU program which is designed  to handle "lean conditions" on wide open throttle.  I have done WOT on full E85 with no problem.  I suspect the supercharger mods are what is allowing the E85 to work, even though the tC is not a flex fuel vehicle.

 

 

I suspect you are right  :)

 

 

Very cool bbesler..keep us updated ..interesting to see if you can run full E85 through the summer (as apposed to the winter blend E70)

 

 

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I think the blend in the tanks is probably pretty consistent with what is in the chart below.  The E85 cycles through the tanks around here fast lately it seems because gas prices are so high.  I paid $3.04 a few days ago for E85 at Meijer including a 5c Meijer credit card discount.  I'm sure I am running blend level 3 which is E70.  After a half a tank I think I'm observing at 15% mpg reduction, but no acceleration or start problems yet.  At work it was left out and started a couple of times below 50 degrees F.  Normally the supercharged engine require 91 octane so I'm saving money even with the mpg reduction.  I will report more fully on the mileage once I am though a couple tanks of E85.  Normally the tC gives me 27 mpg.  From what I am reading the new direct injection engines like the Buick Regal turbo and the Ford Ecotech should use E85 with mpg closer to regular gasoline.

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That turbo will help a bunch as well as the program mod. My guess, you won’t get close to Buick Regal mpg, but who knows? Fifteen percent is very close to regular fuel. It will be very interesting to keep up with your test results.

 

Fifteen percent is hard to test for, but you as most on board test mpg every tank. As you know, mileage will vary per season, temps, oil change, tire pressure, driving style, even trips that steadily gain in altitude. It’s amazing how increasing tire pressure will affect mpg. I run my tires 10psi over max rating, especially on a trip. Tire performs better, but will give you a stiffer ride.

 

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My tires state "max pressure 45psi" and I like to run them just at or just above 40psi.  Every time I take it anywhere... they ALWAYS deflate the tires down to 35! ???  I have to request that they put them back up to 40... they then all proceed to lecture me on "excessive tire wear and ruining my tires..."  I point out that it says "maximum" psi of 45... so anything under the maximum is OK... I've pointed out to one station that if the maximum speed limit is 55, would you be driving at 43?

 

If all the cars in the country are going by this advise... aren't we wasting a TON of imported oil?

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Its a funny thing about tire pressures. You get the guys on the radio telling you to go with the placard in the car for tire pressures. You get other people spouting the same thing. Here's the deal. The manufacturer goes with a compromise to get that PSI value. The most important to them on the list is ride quality, a lower pressure rides smoother, but it also increases rolling resistance and thus uses more fuel. Mileage isnt as much of a concern as ride quality, so you get tire pressures around 32psi. Also most shops have always set tires to 32 psi so they continue to do it. I figure the tire manufacturer knows more about their particular design that might not be what the OEM vehicle company used, so I go with their pressure.

 

As for wearing out the centers with more pressure, I have a car with 285 40 17 Eagle F1 tires. It has always had 40-45psi in them. It rides stiff, but then again it is a Firebird Formula so its not exactly a Caddy or Lincoln Town Car. The tires have been on there for 70,000 miles and they have nice even tire wear. Those are not narrow tires, they are almost 11 inches across the tread. If there was going to be a problem with over inflation wearing out the centers it would be on these tires.

 

On larger vehicles more air pressure equates to more load capacity. I learned about that in the military while working with cargo handling equipment. 10,000lb forklifts, 60,000lb cargo loaders, etc. Tire pressure is a big deal when you are dealing with the weights we moved and loaded on planes and a 60k loader has 14 tires on each side.

 

I go round and round with people about this. If the tire sidewall says you can run a max pressure, then it is safe for that pressure. If the car placard says this is the recommended pressure, then it is to get the best ride, handling, tire wear, and mileage, in that order.

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there are some shops advertising "free nitrogen inflation for life" with purchase of tires from their shop.... does this have any MGP merit?  (sorry to be hijacking this thread... last comment on tires... sorry I brought it up! :-[)

Nitrogen in tires is becoming a very popular replacement for air, and for good reason. With proper inflation procedures and adequate purity nitrogen can provide amazing benefits. Converting to nitrogen in tires can improve your fuel economy by up to 10% and increase your tire life by 30% or more while dramatically increasing the safety of your vehicle.

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I have done WOT on full E85 with no problem.

 

Sounds like quite the ride. If you have any way to monitor the O2 sensor I would highly recommend it.  Even an aftermarket OBD scanner or a lambda gauge.  I've seen some fairly wide changes in AFR as the weather / fuel blends change.  It shouldn't take too much to fine tune, but it can make the difference between 'doing WOT' and 'doing WOT with maximum power and not destroying the engine in the process'.  E85 is pretty forgiving of small boo-boos in tuning, but when you combine high compression with a turbo-supercharga-whatever-it-is, you can increase the possibility of damage.

 

 

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