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Motion for a Tuner shop forum + other improvements!

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Cessna- do you know if any certification work is being done w/ AGe85 made w/natural gasoline which is the standard denaturant at ethanol plants? Looking at the AGe85 vapor pressure specs vs e85 I see no diff. Natural gasoline can run from 5% to 70% isopentane according to Wikipedia- I have not ask our nat gasoline supplier for his spec  on this yet but it has me wondering. If the e85 around you in the summer is plant mix (not terminal) and the specs were known on the natural gasoline- I'm wondering if you could just add soy methyl ester (soy biodiesel) to pump grade e85????? The concern could be that while sulfur specs are closely watched on natural gasoline, the vapor pressure is variable-- I heard a while back in the western corn belt, some high RVP natural gasoline was slipped in and caused some vapor lock issues for a while. This would not be too good in a plane.

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1outlaw, I don't know. I will e-mail you at Utica and here with Jim Behnken's(he's doing all the research and has some pretty fancy test equipment hooked up to the different aircraft)cell number and also office that he gave me. If you can get nat gasoline that is 70% isopentane is the other 30% more or less volatile. Sounds interesting to save messing with the 55 gal barrels. On supercub.org I'm always promoting ethanol and the guys there hate it as it legally negates use of auto fuel that is E10. One guy brought up a point about phase separation when climbing to higher cooler air because you can't sump off free water and you may have nearly saturated E10 when on the ground. I read on a boat website that E10 can hold 4 tsp. of water before it drops out with the ethanol so I am just now  doing a little test. Maybe you can help me out a little here---I put 12oz. of E10 in a jar yesterday and brought it home and added 1/7(one seventh) of a tsp. of filtered water. It took quite a bit of swirling to get the water into suspension but I got it done in the house (60 some degrees). Then I put it outside and got what looked like the amount of added water to drop out(20 degrees outside). Brought it back in and warmed up swirled again and water stayed in suspension. Put it back outside overnight(5 degrees) and water dropped again. Just brought it back in and swirled and it's suspended again. I didn't think it would do this. Any thoughts? Also EAA hates ethanol because they have a none alcohol STC for auto fuel use in some aircraft. I've suggested to one guy over there that the fuel research guys go over and talk to you but no dice yet so is there any chance you might go talk to them and maybe enlighten them on overblown corrosion, etc. ideas they have? After using a 50/50 blend of ethanol in two  older non- FFV vehicles for about 5 years, I'm tempted to try some E10 in my plane( it can use unleaded regular legally). This also knowing that the only change in my plane to run AGE85 is to install the higher compression engine with the jet in the carb enlarged to flow about 30% more fuel.

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We need sections for

 

-planes

-boats

-motorcycles, ATVs, quads

 

 

There is already work being done on aircraft, they are trying to develop and aircraft rated version of E85 called AGE85.

 

The problem with aircraft is that unless it is an experimental aircraft use of a non-certified fuel could be a problem if the plane falls out of the sky for any reason. Everyone would point at the fuel regardless of the true cause. The AGE85 looks promising and will allow the elimination of leaded aircraft fuels if it works out. Experiments show a 600 hp aircraft engine on gasoline will develop about 650 hp on AGE85.

 

We need sections for

 

-planes

-boats

-motorcycles, ATVs, quads

 

 

We need sections for

 

-planes

-boats

-motorcycles, ATVs, quads

 

http://www.age85.org/

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/1999/07/990720083151.htm

http://ethanolproducer.com/article.jsp?article_id=1859

 

Larry

 

OK OK ..where do you guys want these at  (Planes, Boats , Atv's etc.). ..Under Tuning Shop Talk ?

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Cessna- the 4 tps/gal is the number I have heard too. I think you got the equivalent of 8 tsp/gal in your test. In theory what you were seeing was the phase separation w/alcohol and water together- did this freeze at 20 degrees???

Don't feel bad- I tried the same experiment but on an even smaller scale (50ml) and until I realized the H20 had to be 1/2%- I had trouble too!

 

Phase separation would be initiated in theory at 4tsp/ 10%, 8tsp/ 20% etc. Thus e85 should be at 34tsp/gal (4.25%) but I suspect this would be temp sensitive.

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(Thanks for putting them up, Dan!) I have one small request: Label the ATV section as "Motorcycles, Mopeds, ATVs, and Other Recreational Vehicles." I think we can safely group it there for anything under 1200cc of displacement and even include 2-strokes, too. I've got a 2 stroke weedeater engine left over that I wanted to try E85 on. There's an "upper cylinder lubricant" of some kind for 2 stroke fuels that use ethanol. Maybe some guys would get gutsy and try it in an RC car :lol:.

 

Thanks again! :D

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Dan- To GT's comments- I would add in the ATV listing along w/ his suggestions- Go-carts- several of those guys are now running methanol and are looking at e85.

 

Ok It's done guys..  Should I add Lawn Mowers - Snowblowers ?  ;D 

 

Actually come to think of it people will want to know if they can run E85 in them and if anyone else has tried it ..maybe I will

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