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FFV vs EV

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Interesting to read posts on how ethanol may run interference to battery car.

 

Excerpts from  "Is the Age of Electric Vehicles Finally Upon Us? "DF Novemer 23rd, 2010

Joanna Schroeder

 

First, most of the EVs are coming from foreign manufacturers and countries such as China have plans to dominate the EV market. These same manufactures are not releasing many, if any FFVs. Second, American auto manufacturers are not releasing as many EV models as foreign manufacturers. However, in their case, they are releasing significantly more FFVs.

 

It will be extremely interesting to watch consumer adoption of the next generation of FFVs and EVs and simultaneously see if the American auto industry comes out on top with its gamble on alternative fuels or if foreign auto makers will continue to gain market share with their gamble on EVs.

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Personally I don't see this as an "either or" situation...  I think that there is plenty of room out there in the market for BOTH to be successful with the right development, technology, marketing and infrastructure.

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Personally I don't see this as an "either or" situation...  I think that there is plenty of room out there in the market for BOTH to be successful with the right development, technology, marketing and infrastructure.

 

I agree with that assessment Husker..  we are already seeing a wider variety of fueling options , ethanol , gasoline ,electric and NG ....  and like you say plenty of room in the Market for all of them

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Gasoline, ethanol, CNG and LPG engines are almost the same. it is the sameengine with very small modifications of fuel supplying system, thats all. and this cars have almost the same "service net strategy" - i mean fuel stations, motor oils, service procedures and consumables.

 

EV - will have absolutely different service strategy, electric vehicle do not need any service and consumables at all, "fuel" (electricity) is very cheap and can be easy reached from anywhere - not only from servified fuel station, as gasoline, for example.

 

EV will not be popular until big business will not invent "service strategy" for EV, for "lock" users to their service.

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Interesting posts/points. Yes, unless business or government controllers/politics can obtain control over the EV supply chain it may hinder the popularity. So many excellent solutions to our societal needs, especially energy, transportation, housing, food, and waste disposal lay dormant upon the sidelines as the solution does not attract the power brokers. The power base has no need or desire to empower individuals or small business solutions. You know the cost effective solutions that employ more people and offer maximum freedom and creativity.

 

For example a retired Mechanical Engineer in Canada, whom experienced in ultra high pump pressure technology of gas invented a small hang on the wall appliance, that would be plumbed into garage like a NG dryer. This home refueling station could easily be cost justified. It allowed for home refueling, meaning no costly refueling infrastructure nor government expense. Just a small Schrader valve tubing and connection to fuel tank and enjoy an automatic overnight refuel. Private citizens would jump at the convenience and cost savings.  But, as per the EV it short circuited the government tax and control of a very rich economic sector whom is routinely savaged per politics and populous cry to employ ever more fed oversight and control. You see, no way would Feds get away with shenanigans upon voting private citizens. They operate best if removed from public view. So, the re-fueler and CNG solution got hammered with costly fed regulations, inspections, and permits. Safety was the tool of choice. No news articles upon the historical excellent safety record of international experience, nor any information on potential perfection of solution. Just fear mongering to remove the idea from public conscience.

 

One problem with FFV for our international auto companies.....not much ethanol production out their other than Brazil and U.S. Compare that fuel production verses the need for every home to have electricity and natural gas. Note that U.S. auto companies often make more money on foreign markets i.e. China. So, the foreign markets carry maximum future opportunities per greatly expanding economies and wealth. U.S. economy is expected to be dormant or shrink per very high generational burdens i.e. national debt.

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For example a retired Mechanical Engineer in Canada, whom experienced in ultra high pump pressure technology of gas invented a small hang on the wall appliance, that would be plumbed into garage like a NG dryer. This home refueling station could easily be cost justified. It allowed for home refueling, meaning no costly refueling infrastructure nor government expense. Just a small Schrader valve tubing and connection to fuel tank and enjoy an automatic overnight refuel. Private citizens would jump at the convenience and cost savings. 

 

Highly unlikely...  I personally wouldn't ever use a NG vehicle because NG prices  fluctuates far to much in cold weather States like here in Minnesota  ..  I would go plug in electric first using  solar panels to recharge

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I'm with TD.  I like the idea of Hybrid FFVs with maybe the option to add PHEV(extra battery pack) later when battery prices come down.  At present we don't have infrastructure for widespread use of EVs. In city(only) use is best

application for these propulsion types.

 

  I like the looks of the Ford Fusion Hybrid, but have not yet assessed

the nature of FFV efficiency (turbo) or if it's even available.

  The mileage quotes used (41/36) but I'll bet that isn't using E85.

 

To me,  FFVs won't catch on in the US, until automakers can approach range parity with gasoline models.

'til then, it's up to the experimenters and shade tree mechanics to lead the way...

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Hybrids only make sense if you spend a lot of time driving in the city, which I don't. EV mode is limited to under 35-45 mph. Faster than that or anything other than light pedal pressure and the gas engine kicks in.

 

Saving $3-4k with a federal subsidy helps too (most have run out). Older ones don't turn off the engine if the AC is engaged, newer ones use electric compressors. Still my city mileage is at least double my wife's (similar vehicles), even with E85 in mine vs her's with E10.

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How about ethanols disadvantage per road tax, which is based on gallons and not energy content.  It should naturally take more gallons of ethanol per mile, and per mile ethanol will pay 30% more tax. How much road or sales tax would the battery car pay?

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