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fleebut

Another ethanol roadblock development

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If ever you thought politics not the prime mover of energy concerns, well this linked story will be evidence to the contrary. Some folks think the green movement, ethanol’s friend. Don’t think so.  Clean energy does not include carbon fuels including ethanol. However natural gas given an exemption. This link a story on Greeville, OH experiment of deep well carbon sequestration. You see lime stone porous and easily soaks up CO2 and locks it up like a sponge. A project underway for testing efficacy of this promising technology. Technology that has the potential to wholesale gobble up monstrous tonnages of evil CO2. The supply of CO2 an ethanol brewing plant. Probably because they could easily calculate the volume of gas.

 

They abandoned the project. You see the green movement aligned itself with (supposedly) anti ethanol right and relentlessly invoked environmental concerns to doom the project. However, I suspect the Right had very little sway as the right is big supporter of sequestration and about split upon ethanol. Most like ethanol just not the huge tax cost. The reason the blender credit must go as it is mostly a payoff of petrol.     

 

http://www.daytondailynews.com/business/greenville-carbon-dioxide-injection-plan-abandoned-257679.html

 

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The project would have injected carbon dioxide from a nearby ethanol plant more than 3,000 feet underground.

 

Oh Great... then the next Generation gets stuck with toxic mess.. I'm glad ther project was halted.. 

 

Hiding the CO underground is not a solution just a way for the Company to get rid of it

 

 

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Dan,

 

I have mixed thoughts on this...  the whole "carbon sequestration" deal with pumping CO2 underground...

 

I'm not a "geophysicist" by any stretch of the imagination... but, aren't hydrocarbons made from carbonous material (solid, liquid and gas) trapped deep beneath the earth under heat and pressure for thousands and millions of years? (very crude simplified version of a complex process...)

 

Is it possible that storing sequestered CO2 deep beneath the surface like this idea COULD possibly be starting the whole process of producing future generation's hydrocarbons?  All be it very distant future?  Maybe IF we can figure out how to not destroy our planet, we can leave our decedents the opportunity to repeat our mistakes by producing enough hydrocarbons to let them attempt to destroy the planet on their own.... ;)

 

I personally like the idea of feeding this captured CO2 into algae bio-reactors (still not fully industrial scale yet...) and producing algae oil, making this into Bio-diesel... getting the absolute most in liquid transpiration fuel out of the same amount of biomass feed stock as possible...

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Why not just give it away ?  Less costly than piping it underground.. 

 

I see what you are saying Husker ..the problem is we don't know for certain what happens when we simply put it underground (in such great volumes)... Or what would happen in the event of a major release of Co2 .. In the event of a Major earthquake ..yep they say no way could it be released even in the event of a earth quake.but "they" say all kinds of things that turn out to be completely wrong.

 

Just seems like there are many other alternative uses for it ..  reading up on all the different products.. from soft drinks to fire extinguishers...  find a use for it instead of piping it underground ...

 

Are there Grants for Plants to capture the Co2? to help off set the initial cost of purchasing the equipment ?

 

 

The Algae bio- reactors..sounds good ..

 

 

 

 

 

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I recall seeing a  Tanker Truck  with Co2 I suspect that must have come from the Little Falls Minnesota Ethanol Plant.. I was heading that way and the Tanker was coming from that direction ...just a couple Miles away..

 

Anyways...just wondering out loud ..    There has to be  Market for It.. even if all the Plants do is cover there cost just seems to make more sense then sticking it in the ground..

 

Outlaw you know how big the Market is For Co2 and what it takes /costs to capture and store /transport can it be sold  at a profit ?

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I'm sure you folks all know about this...

 

http://www.greenshift.com/

 

these folks have a module that can be set up on almost ANY corn-ethanol plant, to extract the corn oil from the distillers grains.  They get 3 gallons I think from every 100 gallons of ethanol or something like that...  It also means that there is less moisture in the co-product that has to be dehydrated for storage...

 

Anyways, this company is working on exactly the sort of CO2 algae-bio-reactor...

 

http://www.greenshift.com/research.php?mode=3

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I'm sure you folks all know about this...

 

http://www.greenshift.com/

 

these folks have a module that can be set up on almost ANY corn-ethanol plant, to extract the corn oil from the distillers grains.  They get 3 gallons I think from every 100 gallons of ethanol or something like that...  It also means that there is less moisture in the co-product that has to be dehydrated for storage...

 

Anyways, this company is working on exactly the sort of CO2 algae-bio-reactor...

 

http://www.greenshift.com/research.php?mode=3

 

I suppose install cost , operating costs will determine if it is profitable or not... very cool though

 

 

 

Also " A dry mill ethanol plant will convert each 56 pound bushel of corn it receives into 18 pounds of ethanol, 18 pounds of carbon emissions, and 18 pounds of DDGS"

 

 

1/3rd of yield is carbon emissions.. ! yeah you would think there should be more focus on capturing profits from the emissions ..

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my point exactly...

 

would be curious if they could capture the CO2 from the burning of natural gas (or biomass for the few that do that) with such a system?  They may be making bio-diesel at about the same rate as ethanol... 1 crop, two fuels! ;D

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back to fleebuts roadblock post..  It just seems reasonable that for community support/ green support is to simply find a actual use for the CO2..(preferable one that is adds value for the Company as well)  that When Ethanol Plants are in Planning Stage and going before City Councils etc.. that they demonstrate some planning for emissions ..

 

 

Just seems rather amusing at times when Companies act surprised that Communities aren't all that receptive to pumping emissions into the ground ..that they question it ..

 

Just seems like Poor Planning on the part of the Companies..

 

 

If all they did was say ..we will be selling/ giving away our Co2 emissions by products to XYZ company to be used in Fire Extinguishers .. rather than ..yeah we have this plant to pipe millions of tons of Co2 deep in the ground  lol..

 

Probably be worth it for the Ethanol Industry to hire a Green Firm ..to work with a  Green Firm on acceptable ways of using Co2 ..  a firm that can offer guidance on what would be acceptable not just to "greenies" (a not the far  far left filed greenies) .just everyday Voting folks that want things done in a sensible environmental way and in ..

 

It is the IMAGE, the very Idea of putting millions of tons of Co2 in the ground that bothers Communites/people..the un-certainies..

 

Instead of attacking and calling them lunatics and so on.. seems reasonable that to get their support..Ethanol should consider working with them..solutions that satisfy the Communities fears as well as making a profit for the Company

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