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Alt Energy = wind

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Here you go Billy ..

 

imgtag.PNG

 

No, you want just one image link. (Dan you had the image listed twice):

 

[img=http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff26/Billyk24/phevescapehybrid.jpg]

 

Billy, you're getting a link and the image when you paste them into your page.

 

Yeah I seen that after I posted..Billy got it figured out so I just left it

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Yeah I seen that after I posted..Billy got it figured out so I just left it

 

Sorry, I thought "edited by Dan" on his post.  :o

 

Images are easy, provided the link you paste into them aren't goofy, like a link and an image combined. I like the ones on some forums where you get a popup dialog you paste into. Here you have to know too much html to use it properly, like adding a src= for a link, a learning curve for non-programmers. It doesn't help that every forum is different.

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Well, a plug in hybrid is o.k., probably with the Green party/people, too. It still would be an interim step, to them. The problem is that IC engine dependence and complexity.  I would agree with this thinking. Very expensive mpg gain to utilize hybrid technology. Very complicated.  Their logic correct, meaning, if batteries the solution spend all the money on batteries. Forget compromise. If batteries very anemic upon power density....just make smaller lightweight expensive material cars and tax the competition to artificially make them more attractive. If you produce a real consumer desired cost effective ethanol (a carbon fuel) and the fuel appears to be a green solution. This would be very bad in their minds. It would allow less efficient larger autos much like todays fleet. It would allow the old technology to exist as it definitely would be less costly auto and cheaper solution.  To their minds the IC engine the problem. As long as the IC engine lives lawmakers and consumers probably encourage oil drilling. Get rid of the IC engine within the car fleet and big oil loses. Ethanol is a complementary fuel to petro. There're twins enabling and existing as liquid carbon fuels. They even can be easily mixed. I don't see petro companies scared of ethanol as much as government regulations. They could easily buy up or construct ethanol productions facilities once the startup costs and developments paid by other businesses and government. It's a complementary product to theirs. The growth rate, market acceptance, government interest, investment acceleration, etc all indicate this phenomena active. This is just a market evaluation of the  competition. The Green movement is in high gear to obstruct markets and head off all but the correct solutions. Ethanol is in the center of this and can be played either way. IMHO, society seems quiet on ethanol solving energy problems, as being a long term solution; the buzz not to impressive.

 

All this means, that the excitement energy is lost, and the sector must rely on real value to customers. Were in a maintenance mode upon politics unless something big comes along and disrupts current thinking. You would think if ever this would happen, it would be upon Left Green talk shows. Like what I posted on Science Friday (the premiere green show) and the news discussion on Gulf Oil....the leading proponents of Green energy never talk of ethanol......quiet. It's not a solution in their minds, just a distraction.  Oil is bad...that is unanimous, that, conclusion and the unanimous popular thought of  alternative energy = wind.  My perception to date the Green movement is promoting the idea of food vs fuel vs indirect land use. You see this throttles production of ethanol to low growth rate. This is o.k. Same with nuclear and coal to exist within current numbers, meaning fight any building plans. So, this will squeeze wind energy to forefront of energy production. Regulations and easy money will magically produce "Green" jobs just like they envision the future. This is my take on the future of energy.

 

And this is the reason I think ethanol should go after truck market like Ricardo is currently doing. This market exempted from battery power. The competition natural gas, but probably not for smaller trucks? It would be good to have E85 the non flex fuel for heavy auto luxury market such as SUV or motor coach, motor homes, racing, marine, light truck, medium truck, delivery trucks. I don't think environmentalist will allow ethanol as a cost effective fuel to passenger cars. If automakers attempt they will head off such plans with regulations. They may have already.

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I would like to see a "ricardo" styled small engine, possibly a inline 3 cylinder, turbo charged, high compression ratio, and loaded with torque.  Make it to fit in a compact car (neon-caliber, caviler-sunfire, escort-focus) sized commuter car.  Get some what comparable mileage, possibly improved performance (due to octane and turbos, and lighter weight), and push that per mile this car will be cheaper to drive, and cleaner....

 

You'd have many commuters (like me), kids, students, racers and average joes/janes lining up for it, as well as the e85 fuel! ;D

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Wow, this is off-topic. ;D

 

I've owned a lot of vehicles in my lifetime, many of them performance cars, but only 3 were new, one when I was 18, another half-way thru life and my current vehicle.

 

When a SUV hybrid is available that is flex, plugin, affordable, has major new ICE technology like direct injection so E85 gets similar mileage to gas and a substantial improvement in what I get, it's going to be difficult to not upgrade. In other words, if they can improve highway mileage by 5 mpg AND get me the 5 mpg lost by E85, I'm sold.

 

I don't need no stinkin' auto-parallel-parking, but keyless ignition would be cool.  ;D

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Chuckle, postings mostly on subject. The post really intended to point out the alternative energy nomenclature change and fallout of ethanol upon "clean" energy at least to the Green folks.

 

To date the environmentalist (green) describe:

 

Good energy = "Clean" energy, that would be wind, solar, and natural gas

 

Bad energy = carbon fuels, that would be coal, petrol, and less extent ethanol

 

This is my take on monitoring the discussions. Usually, ethanol is not even on the landscape. Actually, they appear to accept petrol fuel and have no problem with the fuel if it can be taxed heavily with the knowledge the solution is the battery car. Ethanol just lumped in with petro technology, that would be the IC engine. They appear to accept use of fuels, but do not want them to developed to partial solution status. The real solution being windmills changing up battery cars and when the wind fails the temporary use of gas turbine generators. Government energy money prioritized  to develop smart grid and wind turbines. Regulations to check the growth and popularity of alternatives to their "Clean" energy solution. They think ethanol a minor player, with a minor future that may offset some petrol.

 

Well, all I can say about this, left to the open market it probably would be a different story. And I do think open markets a whale smarter than activist setting with deficit checkbook in hand. These folks have no omnipotent powers.  They like to spend other peoples money on their pet projects. No worry of financial responsibility or fallout of failure as its not their money. It's good to empower markets and support budding technology, but not good to apply heavy handed controls per artificial intelligence.

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I think with the "wind turbine, converting air into fertilizer to raise corn for ethanol" would help make the whole false argument that many environmentalists state... "but there is so much carbon fuel (diesel, gas, natural gas) that is used means they consume more energy then they produce..." (which we all know is far from true)  all the more harder to support.  Though knowing this lot, they'll find false misleading data to back up their claims....

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It may be an advantage for ethanol to have low profile. Meaning the tree huggers have lots of power, currently. They self describe themselves as tree hugger so will go with that term.  You don't want to insult this group or rise their ire or offer better solutions to their dreams. Not that I dislike wind turbines or solar. Heck, I was working on that way before it was cool. Just I crunched the numbers and re-crunch the numbers...can't do it. Dan's has the most cost effective solar. I might do some of that, you know with soldering, assembly and mounting to keep costs down. Wind is the closest to being economically justifiable, but again so sight specific. If you have exceptional wind resources....you wouldn't want to live their.  Michigan has some excellent wind resources....I'm all for cutting the turbine sector lose on lake Michigan. Put up as many of these things they can if its profitable saving consumer money. I don't want to subsidize their ventures per tax payer money. Wind energy is a mature technology. Not much new their.

 

I'm with you guys on small 3 or 4 banger maxed out with E85. That would be nice. 

 

Everyone on this board is doing a magnificent job of promoting and informing ethanol fuel. Guess, thats the best most effective line of action. Stay the course. Markets are really more powerful than regulators. For instance, drugs and crime are illegal. These actions are 100% regulated, so why do they exist? Because someone is willing to pay. That my friend is more powerful than governments.  What is the oldest profession? It's illegal right. Just making a point the consumer with money in hand is in charge. Make ethanol a attractive product, and if the consumers have some experience and information...thats the bottom line, despite tree hugger or earth hugger desires.

 

The local production and employment a big advantage. A big promotion to utilize some wind turbine power and solar just to cement the image of clean power with ethanol a good thing...even if no rational rate of return. It just PR that general public is conditioned to.

 

That fertilizer production...ya, a great application of wind power. No constraints for timely power schedule, just when ever. This is exactly the power of entrepreneurship spirit. We will find better and better applications for wind, solar, ethanol, bio-fuel, and bio gas. It takes stead fast application of creativity to nurture inventiveness. We can salt the process some with cheaper investment money, but the power is the open market and a wide diverse population trying to make some money. We need not go wholesale to some phony government wish list. Better to slowly allow the private sector to adapt and accommodate the wishes of customers. At one time we had the most productive economy upon the planet. We need to reinvigorate this energy and quite the sensitive junk. Victims don't pay the bills.

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