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Can some of you who are more articulate than I, please go over to the BITOG (Bob is the oil guy) forum and educate some of these guys. There is a argument going on the old food vs. fuel debate and few are defending ethanol.

 

Its under "automotive general topics" - scandalized about ethanol.

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I might make it over there eventually; got too much going on at the moment.  Rusty has a point--many are not blogging to become educated.  They are blogging to spread myths, rumors, and lies.  The best one can do is keep posting facts and try not to take it personal that the other bloggers seem unable to learn.  They're not there to learn.  They probably take pleasure in frustrating those that oppose them.  Don't give them the pleasure of responding to their prodding.  I'm guilty of giving in myself sometimes.  Doesn't get you anywhere; just keep on putting the facts out there--so that other readers (who likely won't blog) will see that there are 2 sides to the story, and look for the real facts themselves.  It helps to post links as well to scientific studies, universities, US DOE, etc. to back them up--and hopefully the readers will read those.

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Maybe easier to send them over here.  It's been discussed numerous times.  In short, there can hardly be any debate if one uses even simple math.  ie todays corn price is about $3.85/bushel or about 7 cents a pound.  A 1 pound box of cornflakes is about $3.00 on the store shelf.  Even assuming the box was a solid pound of corn, if corn was free, it would still be $2.93!

 

Even considering corn @ $10/bushel - less than 20 cents a pound (there are literally only pennies worth of corn in most products we buy.  Doubling (or cutting) the price of corn only makes a few cents difference either way.  However, raising the price of fuel - used in everything from harvesting the food, trucking it to the plant, manufacturing, distribution, etc has a marked impact on the food price.  Even then a large chunk of the price is marketing and other overhead.

 

Stopping all biofuels could cut grain price 20%!

http://e85vehicles.com/e85/index.php/topic,1548.0.html

 

Food and Fuel, an elevator pitch

http://e85vehicles.com/e85/index.php/topic,1410.0.html

 

Q: How do you answer criticisms that corn-based ethanol pushes up food prices?

http://e85vehicles.com/e85/index.php/topic,2632.0.html

 

Report suggests corn for ethanol not to blame for food prices

http://e85vehicles.com/e85/index.php/topic,905.0.html

 

Does ethanol really affect food prices?

http://e85vehicles.com/e85/index.php/topic,1320.0.html

 

...etc

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Every time I have posted a rebuttal to the myths on car forums, and provided links to multiple studies that have passed peer review, and also posted pics of the carbs I have been running on ethanol for a few years, I get called a liar.  What is the point of arguing on some blog? I just let them rant and pat each other on the back while they complain that gas costs too much. Occasionally on a car forum I will reply if the information is incorrect regarding ethanol, but I only provide information that I have found to be accurate. I dont get into the politics or debates over it.

 

I know how gas runs and what it does to cars, and I know how ethanol runs and what it does too. Im not a tinfoil hat wearing type, quite the contrary actually. I am just an ASE master tech who owns a bunch of cars and rebuilds them from the ground up, and I make fuel to run them because gas is too damn expensive where I live. High octane race fuel is so pricey I couldnt even afford to tune the car never mind drive or race it. I can spend a few weekends and make enough fuel to run my drag car for a season very cheap, if I ever get the car NHRA legal again.

 

Why argue? I would rather show them first hand then watch them stammer and turn red. Then they call me a liar.

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The name of the blog gives it away.  I'll comment on newspaper articles, and other somewhat neutral sites, but trying to convince someone who frequents a blog call Bozo the oil guy is just a waste.

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In their defence, it is a good source of information regarding lubrication oil.  I don't think the "oil" part of BITOG means fuel.

 

I think if someone were motivated enough, do a few UOA's (used oil analysis) running gasoline and a few running ethanol.  If ethanol makes engines last longer (and we know it does) then there will be lower wear metals shown on the analysis and they may respond to that.

 

Stamping out the "food vs fuel" idiocy should be fairly easy as Corey pointed out.

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I've been a member over at BITOG for years (though admittedly pretty inactive).  The forum itself is a wealth of info on UOA, additives, oil manufacturers, etc.  As rusty points out, the 'oil' is lube oil, fuel oil, etc - not necessarily 'big oil' or 'crude oil'.

 

Those guys are as passionate about getting the absolute maximum performance from lube oil as we are about ethanol.  You would think the two would go hand-in-hand.  Kind of funny to see guys buying high priced synthetic oil, premium filters, spending money for UOA and other luxuries to keep their engines in absolute tip-top shape, then balk at paying 2 cents more for cereal, eggs or hamburger to provide a fuel which helps further that very cause and is usually more economical in terms of miles per dollar.

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