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Dawn

Renew

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Last week E85 was $1.99 at the "Renew" stations in Oshkosh and Waupun.  There are no cashiers so there is not much overhead for the stations.  You just use your credit card or cash, just as you would at a regular "pay at the pump" station.  I would not have believed it if I had not seen (and paid) the $1.99 prices for myself!

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Last week E85 was $1.99 at the "Renew" stations in Oshkosh and Waupun.  There are no cashiers so there is not much overhead for the stations.  You just use your credit card or cash, just as you would at a regular "pay at the pump" station.  I would not have believed it if I had not seen (and paid) the $1.99 prices for myself!

 

Thanks for the update Dawn.. pretty sweet paying $1.99 while everyone else is paying $3.00 for unleaded

 

Renew is one of my favorite Ethanol Models ..those Renew stations are set up by Ethanol producer Utica Energy

 

http://www.uticaenergy.com/htdocs/utica/UticaAbout.html

 

http://www.uticaenergy.com/htdocs/utica/UticaRenewE85.html

 

 

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Renew in Oostburg, Cedar Grove, Waupun, and Kewaunee are also at $1.859

 

Still a good price outlaw but I am a bit suprised renew has gone a bit lower..

 

do you stop at the Renews ? Whats your view of them ?  (Utica Energy..Renew )

 

 

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Dan-  RE; Renew-I put them up and I manage them. I also welcome feedback about them. By the way all E85 will be $1.799 by 9/30/06. I just discovered this web site a couple of days ago- how did you know about us???

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Dan-  RE; Renew-I put them up and I manage them. I also welcome feedback about them. By the way all E85 will be $1.799 by 9/30/06. I just discovered this web site a couple of days ago- how did you know about us???

 

Heck I hold  Wisconsins Utica Energy - Renew and MFA OIl (LocalMissouri Distributer)up as examples (here in our forum) of how the ethanol Industry needs to be acting (actually competing against the Oil Companies gasoline products)  .   Both are companies acting pretty much outside the Oil Companies influence . ..

 

I'm a strong advocate that the Ethanol Industry needs to build out their own infrastructure   ..even at the retail level to keep the Oil Companies influence as far away as possible... that's how the conumers can actually win on Pricing and How Ethanol can actually TAKE marketshare  from Oil ..  the consumers main interests is pricing.. they'll support who ever supports them. 

 

I want to see Ethanol grow as a competitor to Oil instead of as partners with Oil ... I hate the idea that most of these Ethanol plants are selling the majority of their product to the OIl companies for blending e10/e20 and for oxygenation (I understand to some degree it's necessary..just hate the idea..and a lot of these relationsships as far too close..for "competitors") ..  I understand last year it was roughly 1% of all ethanol (for vehicle fuel) actually went to E85 and the rest to blending e10/e20 and for oxygenation..

 

I'd rather see these ethanol comapnies/plant legislated (if they wont do it themselves like renew and mfa oil do) that they need to set-up E85 retail locations .. actually invest in the infrustrcter to bring E85 to the consumer ..and after they meet that quota THEN they can sell the remainder of their ethanol production to the oil companies..

 

The way it is set up now..it looks as if Oil simply trys to buy up as much ethanol capacity as possible ..creating a tight ethanol market..keeping E85 high (high enough that it dosent make financial sense for consumers to switch to E85)

 

Utica and MFA oil I assume both sell production to the Oil/Petro Industry but both make sure they provide and build out E85 first ..that's why I hold them up as examples .. they have already demonstrated they can and will compete with Oil in their markets ..at the retail pricing ..   and both compnies are taking Marketshare from Oil in their markets .. 

 

MFA OIL actually has an agreement with the local plant to keep E85 priced 20% less than Unleaded .. http://www.mfaoil.com/e85_availability.asp

 

Here is one of their BreakTime stations I stopped at overthe summer driving through MIssouri

http://e85vehicles.com/Marshall-E85.htm

 

So do you work for Utica or are you an outside Investor franchising out and setting up these Renew Stations ? 

 

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Dan- I work for Utica. So far all Renew branded stations are owned by Renew E85 LLC which is owned by the same 5 guys who own Utica. Yes- we, like all plants have to sell ethanol to major oil companies. We see ethanol posted at oil terminals in Wisconsin at $0.25- $1.25 over what we know trades are done for- is it any wonder you see variable pricing at E85 stations who do not have agreements in place with ethanol producers? Ethanol needs to go straight from the plant to the station to avoid the excess freight, middle men, throughput charges, and excessive gross margins applied at terminals often by companies who do not want it to succeed. We welcome any ethanol plant who wants to direct market or form agreements with station owners- this will speed the development of more vehicles and more importantly- better designs such as Saab's Biopower turbocharged European models. This will greatly support a market for all the ethanol production coming on line and ultimately prevent oil's attempts to prevent the consumer from seeing it's real potential.

 

In Minnesota some plants do have agreements with station owners. One such company is Chippewa Valley Ethanol who also makes an industrial alcohol and Shakers Vodka in addition to fuel grade ethanol.

 

Mid-Missouri Ethanol must be doing agreements like Chip Valley.

 

Badger Ethanol at Monroe WI. does have one station in their home town that they branded as Smart Gas. They do keep it priced with the consumer in mind.

 

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Dan- I work for Utica. So far all Renew branded stations are owned by Renew E85 LLC which is owned by the same 5 guys who own Utica. Yes- we, like all plants have to sell ethanol to major oil companies. We see ethanol posted at oil terminals in Wisconsin at $0.25- $1.25 over what we know trades are done for- is it any wonder you see variable pricing at E85 stations who do not have agreements in place with ethanol producers? Ethanol needs to go straight from the plant to the station to avoid the excess freight, middle men, throughput charges, and excessive gross margins applied at terminals often by companies who do not want it to succeed. We welcome any ethanol plant who wants to direct market or form agreements with station owners- this will speed the development of more vehicles and more importantly- better designs such as Saab's Biopower turbocharged European models. This will greatly support a market for all the ethanol production coming on line and ultimately prevent oil's attempts to prevent the consumer from seeing it's real potential.

 

In Minnesota some plants do have agreements with station owners. One such company is Chippewa Valley Ethanol who also makes an industrial alcohol and Shakers Vodka in addition to fuel grade ethanol.

 

Mid-Missouri Ethanol must be doing agreements like Chip Valley.

 

Badger Ethanol at Monroe WI. does have one station in their home town that they branded as Smart Gas. They do keep it priced with the consumer in mind.

 

 

Interesting thanks outlaw..  I'm planning on driving over to Chippewa Valley Ethanol grab some photo's for the site

 

keep up the good work at Renew ..

 

as much as we rant about ethanol selling to oil .. we understand it is a necessary evil in order for ethanol to expand rapidly..  the problem comes when certain ethanol companies start getting to close to oil and then oil ends up pulling the capacity levels and hence the pricing of ethanol..especially for E85 .

 

I really like that Utica/Renew is building out..offering their own retail for E85 ..I think that model should be mandated for all Ethanol Plants ..dosent mean each plant building  thousands of retail locations .. but bringing a certain percentage of retail based on the plants capacity..maybe something along those lines  ..

 

The end result of course that in 5 years Ethanol has it's own infrastrcter of say 10,000 E85 stations (against 160,000 oil based stations)..all out of the control and influence of oil ..

 

Ethanol isnt obviousely a total replacement for oil but it can be a total alternative fuel for millions of Americans if they choose it but for that to happen E85 needs to be priced as a competitor to Unleaded..just like Renew E85 does ...it offers E85 fuel as an Pricing Alterntive..it competes, it takes marketshare it dosent waterdown market share like  e10/e20 does (yes I understand those manadates help Ethanol grow quickly)..

 

..

Is Ethanol prepared to take way the e10/e20 production and move that capacity over to E85 as E85 grows in popularity ?  Is Ethanol prepared to fight the e10/e20 mandates (a few years down the road) that they support today ?

 

Or will Oil control so much of the Ethanol market by that time that there is no way they will allow that production to move from blending over to supplying the TRUE alternative ..E85 ?

 

I hope the Ethanol Industry does the right thing..

 

 

 

 

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Dan- your thought of requiring ethanol plants to direct market or have supply agreements for a % of production for a portion of their production dedicated to E85 might have some merit to get E85 off the ground. I think though what is most needed is a requirement on automakers to produce engines that operate more efficiently on E85 than today. There is no reason why some of these vehicles drop more than 20% in mileage (some even 26%) other than poorly engineered designs when other models run at 10-12% increased consumption. I realize that the USA is probably not yet ready for more efficient turbo designs or 14:1 compression engines but automakers can do better while still on a budget. The greatest reasons more ethanol producers do not support E85 at this time is that too many FFV's we have consume too much fuel in relation to gas and thus ethanol has better price value as an octane enhancer- in other words they can get more $$ selling to oil companies for E10  in the short run than discounting ethanol for E85. The problem with selling ethanol to oil companies is that it is not taking a long term view, as you well know. Another reason most ethanol producers do not direct market to consumers is they do not have the skill set required and they fear the oil companies may cut them off, sue them, etc. We are talking about an ant taking on an elephant.

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