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CWGrizzwold

Cary, NC E85 Pump

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Interesting Crowder topped the mileage tests, but was DQ'd on account of not meeting minimum emissions requirements.  I can only guess, maybe they were burning on the lean side and had high NOx?  Looks like they were able to squeak about .45 MPG (2%) over the next closest competitor.  That would probably be in line with expected savings from running 'just a tad leaner than stoic'.

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I see..yeah 7 seconds is "too" long in real world application.. 3.8 not bad still a bit long though

 

We are talking for the general public of course..ok yeah I was hoping you guys had an inside track on the best approach.

 

I have an Old Pickup I run on e85 and finally decided on simply adding a small extra tank 8 gallons to use for cold starts here in Minnesota then switch over to e85 after the truck starts.

 

 

No, on the first sheet those are all scores out of the max available at the top of the column.  For cold start the max points were 25 which went to UT-Austin with a time of 3.8 seconds (found on the second sheet).  We started in 7 seconds and were awarded 22.6 points.  There is no need to pay attention to the first sheet. All the data you guys are looking for is on the second sheet.

 

Cold start was a pain in the butt as you are all well aware of.  I would have to look at UT-Austin's SAE paper to see how they tackled it.

 

Grizz is that 22 seconds for cold start ? 

 

ethanolcontest.JPG

 

Cold Start and MPG I belive are the most crucial points for "home" conversions ..

 

 

Do you recall any special knowledge about cold start issues

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I agree that 7 seconds was a tad too long, but keep in mind this was only our second year doing this (we had the Malibus in 1998).  We used a secondary injector and an air inlet heater and it worked wonders for us.  Those trucks were really hard to start and we had very little test time before we showed up as we were fresh out of a cold chamber anywhere near Lincoln, NE.  The kicker was in 2000 when GM brought a Tahoe there and they only thing they did was reflash the PCM and they killed us in every category.  We had access to a limited amount of maps in the PCM, but once again the number of flashes we got were limited.

 

Air inlet heaters go a long way.  So does keeping the fuel rails and a small amout of fuel (close to the injectors) warm.  We used fuel rail heaters in 2000 but our battery got drained sometime before the cold start which didn't allow the inverter to kick on to power the heaters.  Lessons learned the hard way.

 

I see..yeah 7 seconds is "too" long in real world application.. 3.8 not bad still a bit long though

 

We are talking for the general public of course..ok yeah I was hoping you guys had an inside track on the best approach.

 

I have an Old Pickup I run on e85 and finally decided on simply adding a small extra tank 8 gallons to use for cold starts here in Minnesota then switch over to e85 after the truck starts.

 

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We botched (simple Microsoft Excel error) a map change on the PCM and when we ran an emissions test prior to the competition we were putting out very high levels of CO.  So much so they didn't have a "bin" on the emissions stand calibrated high enough to correctly measure just how much death we were putting out.

 

Good thing we had a few other calibrations on extra ECMs which were much closer to what we wanted.

 

Interesting Crowder topped the mileage tests, but was DQ'd on account of not meeting minimum emissions requirements.  I can only guess, maybe they were burning on the lean side and had high NOx?  Looks like they were able to squeak about .45 MPG (2%) over the next closest competitor.  That would probably be in line with expected savings from running 'just a tad leaner than stoic'.

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Grizz- so glad you found your stuff- interesting to get the rest of the story. No suprise they did not share all the PCM info. One thing I have noticed with GM 5.3 L is that up to 2004 they had a no tow on E85 warning. These 2002-2003 models were quite good on E85 for economy. In 2004 things started to change and some of these would not cold start well and economy went down the tubes. 2005-6 brought back reliable starts but 5-8 % poorer E85 economy according to my customers. GM did come out with a 5.3L PCM flash for "economy" in '06 but not sure it did much.

 

A retired Chysler fuels engineer who did their early alcohols work prior to Daimler's takeover lives in our area. He took his Suburban and reprogrammed the ECU such that he was back to the 1 to 2 MPG differential that the earlier 5.3L's ran. He and others I do not wish to name told me that in '04 EPA lowered NOX standards and automakes had to richen the A/F.

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The pump is now open.  Current price is $2.29 which is about 30 cents cheaper than regular at the same station.

 

As promised, here are some pictures of the new pump at the Shell station in Cary, NC.  I spoke to the manager while I was there and asked him when it was going to open and he said he didn't have a good idea.  He is waiting on the State paperwork to be finished and permit to be issued.  Everything is ready to go otherwise.  I would ignore the price atop the pump in the pictures as that can't be correct.

 

E85_Pump_Cary_NC_1.JPG

 

width=500 height=375http://home.roadrunner.com/~clarkotte/E85_Pump_Cary_NC_2.JPG[/img]

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