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dan45mcc

POLL ***At what blend is ethanol an alternative fuel *** POLL

At what blend is ethanol an alternative fuel  

69 members have voted

  1. 1. At what blend is ethanol an alternative fuel

    • E10
      3
    • E20
      3
    • E30
      12
    • E40
      3
    • E50
      12
    • E60
      4
    • E70
      4
    • E85
      19
    • E100
      10


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The only reason E85 is e85 is because BigToxicOil wants to KEEP toxic

fuel mixed into e85 in order to keep control of it....Otherwise, there

would be no such thing as e85...it would be e100, which has literally

NO EMISSIONS except for water vapor....ugh...

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Just FYI, it has and still remains 70% for ethanol to be considered an alternative fuel in the eyes of the multiple definitions found at the federal level. That said, current efforts are underway through back channels to change that to 51%, which would reflect the current ASTM 5798 spec that covers ethanol blends from 51% to 85%. Keep in mind, 51% would not be E85, it will likely be referred to as a "flex-fuel". E85 will likely stay the same, minimum of 70%, but this will allow lower levels of ethanol to capture available incentives and also fulfill federal fuel usage requirements should E85 not be available.

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Just FYI, it has and still remains 70% for ethanol to be considered an alternative fuel in the eyes of the multiple definitions found at the federal level. That said, current efforts are underway through back channels to change that to 51%, which would reflect the current ASTM 5798 spec that covers ethanol blends from 51% to 85%. Keep in mind, 51% would not be E85, it will likely be referred to as a "flex-fuel". E85 will likely stay the same, minimum of 70%, but this will allow lower levels of ethanol to capture available incentives and also fulfill federal fuel usage requirements should E85 not be available.

 

 

Robert one of the members posted a Photo of a E85 Pump with the 51% as the min instead of the usual 70% .

 

 

We had a discussion about it , some found it to be an issue(and it would be) for the guys fueling up their Street Rods, Performance vehicles and possibly creating engine damage from NOT having enough ethanol( how's that for a counter pucnch to the ethanol, damages engines from the anti ethanol folks )

 

 

 

 

So yeah that is good know ..that 51% is NOT to be labeled as E85..correct ?

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Let me clarify, you can sell E51, but it should not be labeled as E85. You would be violating FTC regulations. The ASTM spec 5798 specifically called out E85 in Class 4 with a minimum of 70% to protect those needing E85. Most of the time that is a federally-regulated fleet. We at the RFA oppose E85 having the ability to contain 51%-85% ethanol for many reasons, you mentioned a few. People should know what they are getting and if that information is blinded to the consumer, we know how the retailer will price it more often than not no matter what us actually in the tank or being dispensed. We know that some retailers are mislabeling it as you mentioned, and we are reaching out to those as they are found.

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I am not at all crazy about E51 being labeled and sold as E85. I've stated before that I am staunchly anti-petroleum, and I would use pure ethanol if it was practical. That being said, E70 does make a big dent in one's direct use of fossil fuels. I don't think any blend more than E20 is an additive, but I would go with E70 or higher.

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I agree Jim, but I definitely agree with Robert that any blend less than E70 should be labeled as such. I've said before that I really want to screw oil over, so I'm not crazy about using any blend lower than E70. I'm concerned that people may use E85 and find the mileage is pretty good while it is E51, but then switch back to gas when they find lower mileage with blends above 80%.

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As a consumer I like to "know what I'm buying"... and believe that I have a right to know what is in the product I buy... to have it accurately labeled.

 

If maximum range and efficiency I wanted... I'd be going with e0...

 

I'm with Gasisoutrageous...  I'm looking for "minimal gas content"...  if I could find a pump that sold e98 I'd buy it.  I'm morally, ethically and patriotically opposed to ANY non-essential gasoline consumption.  I begrudgingly accept the fact that the fuel I buy has 15-30% gasoline... I will have to live with this guilt, and may the Lord have mercy on my soul by not holding this sin against me when that day comes.

 

I do like the idea of e50 in blender pumps as a way to entice FFV drivers (and those brave splash blenders who's vehicles accept this high%) that are put off by the mileage drop with e85 to use more ethanol.  The e30-50 appears to be the sweet spot with maximum torque, hp and anti-knock with out the drop off in mpg that comes after that...

 

I don't like the idea of misleading consumers into thinking they are buying something they are not.

 

Would this be acceptable in anything else?  Imagine the uproar if they announced that all gasoline could contain anywhere from 0-19% ethanol, and you would never know...("fuel contains a minimum of 81% gasoline)  there would be riots in the streets...

 

 

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Jim: I respectfully disagree, my co-worker wrote the changes. ASTM does not have the authority, nor have they made a recommendation on how these fuels are labeled at retail. All labeling requirements come from FTC, National Conference of Weights & Measures (NCW&M), and/or state regulations. To date, E51 should not be labeled E85. It is illegal. As I mentioned earlier, we expect FTC and NCW&M to make a decision on this issue in the coming months, I am personally involved with the effort, but I expect the outcome will be the same as it is today. E85 will remain E70 and above, and E51 and above will be flex-fuel.

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You can label ANY blend of ethanol above 51% as flex-fuel, but that doesn't mean E51 is also E85. You can even label anything above 10.5% as flex-fuel too, but again, it is not E85. It doesn't have to be the FTC, local fire marshal or state fuel inspector can bag the pump, if they choose. It has happened before, and expect it will happen again as people interpret the change this way, including DOE.

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