Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
mpersell

Seems the honeymoon is over, Classic Clean Fuels is now at a 7% spread

Recommended Posts

Overnite texmin discovered that Classic Clean Fuels has raised prices on E85 by 25 cents a gallon.  That spread does not make them worth the drive or even the use of E85 in even the best running FFV.

 

I've been reading in some informal communications that at $6/bu even E10 will be higher priced that equivalent unleaded.  I don't have enough access to the whole price structure to know one way or another.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

I've been reading in some informal communications that at $6/bu even E10 will be higher priced that equivalent unleaded.  I don't have enough access to the whole price structure to know one way or another.

 

 

 

yeah I dont think there is any question about it..  the good news is it will slow the build up of ethnaol plants ..hopefully ending the e10 mandate nonsense and ethanol as an additive falls flat on it's ass ...which will crash the corn market and with corn cheap again E85 actually can be developed out

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The unusual increase is that E85 went up 25 cents and E10 went up only 5 cents.

 

 

 

I've been reading in some informal communications that at $6/bu even E10 will be higher priced that equivalent unleaded.  I don't have enough access to the whole price structure to know one way or another.

 

 

 

yeah I dont think there is any question about it..  the good news is it will slow the build up of ethnaol plants ..hopefully ending the e10 mandate nonsense and ethanol as an additive falls flat on it's ass ...which will crash the corn market and with corn cheap again E85 actually can be developed out

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The unusual increase is that E85 went up 25 cents and E10 went up only 5 cents.

 

 

 

I've been reading in some informal communications that at $6/bu even E10 will be higher priced that equivalent unleaded.  I don't have enough access to the whole price structure to know one way or another.

 

 

Greater percentage of expensive corn ethanol ..

 

it's the the artificial demand for e10 (ethanol as an additive) that is pusing up the price of E85 ..we cant have huge demand for ethanol and expect E85 to be cheap .. the way to get cheap E85 is to undo the mandates on the artificial demand of ethanol as an additive .. if we cant force that (get mandates in for e85) then lead the producers from additive to E85 via phasing out the blenders credits and moving those credits to E85 ..blenders pumps , e85 retail , e85 distribution .. move the subsidies away from ethanol as an additive

 

 

yeah I dont think there is any question about it..  the good news is it will slow the build up of ethnaol plants ..hopefully ending the e10 mandate nonsense and ethanol as an additive falls flat on it's ass ...which will crash the corn market and with corn cheap again E85 actually can be developed out

 

That the path I see.. although it loks like ethanol is self destructing anyways..looks like greed wil be the downfall keeping pushingg demand higher and it gets to expensive to use corn.. that also initiates change .. first the closing of ethanol plants ..(which hopefully pressures states to end e10 mandates)  and second the falling of corn prices as the over growth and demand fall .. allowing E85 to expand(with less expensive corn again) at at solid growth without putting undue pressure on corn

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest colchiro

I noticed the same thing at Hornbachers in Fargo when I checked out E85 in my area the other day. Initially they had a nicer (60 cent maybe) spread. Now they're down to about 50 cents, like most of the other Fargo prices I've seen.

 

I noticed the spread at Tesoro in Fergus Falls is up 6 cents. Must be getting into spring blend.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am not convinced that the price of corn is as much related to ethanol as is the speculation by traders, weak dollar, demand by increasing foreign economies, drought/wheat failure in Australia, China cutting off grain exports, rice crops shrinking in Asia, expense for energy to farm, added demand for fertilizers (that all bio crops and food have placed on it's supply -and similar rampant speculation in that market), demand for other biocrops, and the like. That is today. Tomorrow as corn demand continues to climb then it may be the case that ethanol will be a direct factor- but today when you credit back the distiller/feed by-product we are only creating about a 12-14% real use (starch portion only). Markets do not like rapid change and when they do -everyone  becomes a speculator. This includes foreign countries/companies that will use their currency (strong compared to the dollar) to buy grain forward, traders that know for a while that they can take a long position in grain, ethanol companies buying forward, other processors (and bakers & candlestick makers :D) who buy grain forward, on and on. It is sort of like 911- everyone went out to fill their car- then what was a 1-2 week supply suddenly became hand to mouth. Time and losses in these markets will settle down some of the speculation but our $$$ problem (US economy/value of the dollar) must be fixed or the demands on our grains will remain at far above normal levels. What traders are not used to in this country is having less than 60 day crop carryovers- even if secretly ethanol plants could all shut down- the speculation and foreign demand would still be rampant and grain prices would remain high. When they found out the plants had stopped buying the market pendulum would swing the other way for a few weeks until they discovered that foreign demand was still there, animal producers had less protein supplements (by-products of biodiesel and ethanol), and the weak dollar was all still there- corn prices would likely zoom back up on the board of trade but the corn/bean producer would be back to receiving from 10-40 cents UNDER the board just as he was before biofuels took off (back then the excess grain was bought on the speculation that it would only be exported thus the low basis price to cover the freight).

 

That said- we as a country still need biofuels and definitely need R & D plus investment in making fuel from other sources. We also need for wind, solar, geothermal, hydro, atomic, and even a much cleaner method of using coal to move forward rapidly but with wisdom. We need government to be measured, thoughtful, and resolute- not kneejerk (keep in mind I am a Republican smaller govt type- I do not look normally to govt to help much)-any move too rapid will create speculation as to what happened with corn-even with waste feedstock values. We need the press to be worth the money they bring in- not 20 minute wonders that search for sources that confirm what they think or what they think will be radical enough to sell to sheep.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here, here outlaw. Let's let the dollar fall further. We are now looked at MAYBE monetarily a third world country, Even Cramer of mad money is suggesting S.A. countries as a better investment. He believes that their economies looked like ours did in the fifties and I have to agree with him. The rest of the world gets it. This administration has no Idea about economics or warfare. And if the collaborator gets in and keeps this up, We might as well kiss this country goodbye, we have given most of our constitutional rights away to the fear tactics of these guys. What about the up-tick rule that was rescinded 6 or 8 months ago that was instituted after the crash of "29 so it would be near impossible for people to cause a collapse or near collapse of the market. The Fed says " I Dunno ", Now that we got a market scare the end game is becoming clear, G. W. wants to give the Fed unfettered control of the economy. Hear that sucking sound, Thats our economy going down the Toilet. As long as I'm on a roll, How about the 60 billion bail out for home building companies and their execs. while not giving that money to guarantee loans to people to save their homes. Republicans, I'd love them to death if they were what the created themselves to be in Ripon, Wi. and what the hell has happened to them. No wonder they were scared to death of Ron Paul ( disclosure, I wasn't one of his supporters ). Didn't want to go on a rant but couldn't help myself. Shame, Later.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree with a lot of the last two posts. If we had a 10 to 15% short crop because of weather and biofuels weren't in the picture I don't think prices would have done what they have. Also, just got done reading an article by a commodities broker that has an office 20 miles away. He also lined up investors and they have a big farm down in Brazil. He also supported the war in Iraq at first but now realizes it will go down as one of the biggest blunders in history. Anyway, in his column today, he says the only difference between Republicans and Democrats today is----" Democrats pay for their spending with higher taxes and Rep. borrow it and pay themselves interest, borrowing that too". Let the grand kids worry about the tab.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Agreed speculation is HUGE part of the equation

 

But... the speculation is because of the fast demand for corn that e10 as an a additive is bringing.. if the growth was slower pace we wouldn't be in this situation...plain and simple ..we are creating a fast pace artificial mandated growth for ethanol as an additive ..damn right the price of corn is going up.

 

cessna ..just  a quick search found that the price of wheat rose 49%  in 1989 after drought reduced wheat 13% http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/1988/09/12/71009/index.htm

 

I could care less about " displacing" 10% of oil with ethanol as an additive .. it's totally meaningless at the consumer end.. it does nothing to lower the price of anything and in fact because the of the mandated aspect it forces fast production and the very speculation that drives up prices.. 

 

 

 

At the consumer end we need alternatives E85..CHOICES not additives to the oil companies products

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...