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e85tsi

my 1995 Eagle Talon is converted

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I am new here but I am learning a whole slew of info about E85

I have a 95 talon Tsi AWD that I recently added a Megasquirt ECU, 750cc injectors, and a buck of other go fast goodies to and felt I should do my part and start filling up w/ E85.  I am from Fort Wayne IN and have several E85 pumps in my area(about 4 within 5miles).  Apparently there has been some bad press with the locals over using the fuel and people are reluctant to try it.  So since I figured I would be the one to experiment with it.

 

My talon is running like a champ and I also have a bone stock 02 Altima that is running very nicely on the fuel but is hard to start in the morning, but once it fires I have no other issues.

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Good to hear, we have several DSM's here in Colorado running on it.

They happen to be the fastest in the state at the drags last I looked, running in the 10's, and very low 11's at 5800 ft altitude.

 

I think you will find the car loves it.

 

Larry

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I have the exact same car as you! Unfortunately it doesn't run at the moment though. I have read of many DSM's that have been converted and are having good luck with it. How was the Tuning with Megasquirt? I am trying to decide what route to go when I get my Talon running and converted.

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I have noticed my DSM runs very nicely at around 17psi of boost.  I am spending less on fuel too, and it seems like my MPG has stayed about the same.  I just cannot figure out why no one else around here wants to run it.

 

Boostaddict:  The megasquirt was a pain at first because I rushed into it, but once I slowed down and got back to basics everything went smoothly.

 

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2950733/1

 

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I just cannot figure out why no one else around here wants to run it.

 

That is pretty much what happened here. Everyone was very reluctant due to all the bad info that has been circulating for years about how ethanol would eat up your fuel system, and everyone being used to referring to gasoline with ethanol as being "bad gas". Many of the folks had no idea where that concept came from (being too young to remember when alcohol added fuels first showed up on the market in the late 1970's and early 1980's ) and just took that conventional wisdom at face value.

 

I among others kept beating the drum that it was the best dollar value high performance fuel they could use and they were silly if they did not give it a try.

 

Eventually one or two folks took the plunge and gently stuck their toes in the water and then when there were no major problems and they started to run faster, the tide sort of turned and they begin to re-think the idea. It will take a while but eventually you will have other people joining you.

 

 

Historical perspective:

 

Bad gas ---- gasoline with ethanol

 

In the late 1970's and early 1980's we first started to see gasoline with ethanol added. This was shortly following the "gas crisis" in 1972-1973 when the Arab Oil Embargo put our economy in a tailspin and lead to long waiting lines for gasoline, fuel rationing (you could only buy gasoline on certain days of the week usually decided by if your license plate number was odd of even, and increases in gasoline thefts as it became a commodity worth stealing). Some fuel stations would run out of their fuel ration in just a few hours, and close down for the rest of the day. Some would only sell gas if you had less than 1/4 tank of fuel, some would only sell 5 gallons at a time. This lead to CB radio networks where folks could call on the radio and find out from locals who was still selling gasoline and what stations were open and what price they had. Some of these fuel watch networks would guide total strangers to the nearest local station that had fuel and if they ran out of gasoline help them get enough to get to the nearest fuel station that was still pumping.

 

The gas thefts lead to most people going to locking gas caps, and most new cars switching to interior release fuel fill doors.

 

The "bad gas" myth developed due to several interrelated issues:

Most cars at this time had carburetors. The high vapor pressure of the fuel resulted in vapor lock problems when the engines were hot (fuel would boil in the fuel lines and carburetor bowls blocking fuel flow resulting in hot stalling and poor running when the engine got very hot like the first hot day of the summer season if it came before the fuel suppliers switched back to summer blends of gasoline).

 

Some carburetors had internal gaskets and foam floats, and some rubber fuel lines, fuel pump diaphrams, and needle and seat materials that were not ethanol compatible. This resulted in fuel leaks and occasional engine fires. The fuel pump failures would put gasoline in the oil sometimes resulting in engine damage due to loss of lubrication or simply the engine would quit because it was no longer getting fuel.

 

The ethanol would dissolve accumulated build up of fuel system deposits (varnish and other crud) that had collected in the cars fuel tanks and fuel lines over the years. This would plug up the fuel filters and for those that had no fuel filters resulted in carburetor rebuilds to clean the crap out of small passages in the carburetors.

 

Some station owners did not do a good job of cleaning water out of their in ground fuel tanks which resulted in fuel contaminated with water as the ethanol picked up water out of the ground tanks. This lead to engines running very rough or not at all, requiring some to get the entire fuel system flushed to clean the "bad gas" out of the tank. Many unscrupulous mechanics took advantage of the problem and began pushing the "bad gas" theory to explain any sudden engine problem and blame it on the fuel and then charged huge repair bills to flush fuel systems, replace fuel pumps, rebuild carburetors and/or justify complete engine rebuilds.

 

Those "teething problems" for early gasohol as they called it live on in the institutional memory of the driving public and some auto repair people even though many today have no clue regarding the real cause of those problems or the fact that all of them were addressed and resolved around the mid 1980s' some 20 years ago. With the minor exception of older cars that have been in storage and are still original equipment or have been in areas which never saw ethanol added gas there really is no significant problem. Some of the older DSMs will see problems with fuel system deposits being cleaned out and plugging fuel filters but that is about the extent of it.

 

Larry

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Glad you found it interesting!

 

I lived through that period. The oil embargo drove my brother into bankruptcy taking a good deal of my savings with him, as I had helped him buy his moving truck. That is what first got me interested in fuel ethanol. I also had to commute almost 80 miles each way at the time (I was in the Navy and my commanding officer told me I could live off base at my home as long as I was not coming in late to work).

 

I had established a good relationship with a certain gas station that was about 1/2 way between my home and my duty station before the oil embargo. My work hours were 6 am to 6 pm (12 hour shifts) for 4 days then 5 days off, swapping to night shift for the next 4.

 

Needless to say that work schedule and gas stations that opened at 10 am and were out of gas by 2 in the afternoon did not work well. The guy that ran that station would sell me gas after he was officially "out of gas" just because I was a long time customer and he knew my situation.

 

I would pull in about 7 pm and just hang out until there was a lull in business, then I would quickly backup to the pumps and he would turn the pumps on and slam 5 gallons of gas in the tank before anyone else came in. Several times I ended up driving of fumes talking to someone on the CB as he guided me to some local neighborhood gas station that was still pumping when I needed fuel.

 

There are several of us here on this board that went through that, whole nine yards. Fist fights at the gas pumps because the station owner would not sell any more than 5 gallons etc. Fuel shortages are really serious but most of the drivers on the road today have never seen it first hand and are just whistling as they walk past the grave yard not wanting to think what would happen if 40% of our oil got cut off with no notice.

 

Larry

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e85tsi- Larry hit the nail on the head with his Arab Embargo days comment. I was in central IL at the time and was fortunate to work for a company who had both gas supply and knowledge in how to prep the fuel storage tanks for gasohol. My Torino and wife's Pinto did well on it without any problems. Her Pinto would gain MPG's at 5% alcohol content but MPG on gas and 10% ethanol gasohol MPG's were the same. (I think it was running slighly rich on gas). That experience remained with me and left me open to alt fuels- it also taught me to not always believe what mechanics said. I worked on my own stuff at the time as it was so simple and was similar to the farm equipment I had grown up working on in Indiana (my wife is from Fort Wayne BTW). One thing Larry did not mention was that during that embargo- many independent oil jobbers also went bankrupt because they were completely cut off by major oil companies who wanted full control and would supply their own stations first. Many small corporations and farmers put up small stills but these soon closed as oil dropped in price and ADM was the only company at the time who knew how to cost effectively (at the time) to get the last 5% water out after distillation. ADM survives today in part due to this and in part because ethanol was (and is) a tiny portion of their food additive, feed additive, and grain export business. Today the dehydration of ethanol is common knowlege and fairly cheap.

 

Glad to hear of your success- keep up the good work, and keep some pressure on the stations selling e85 over there to be cost competitive.

 

In your photos- I was wondering why the piston shots were showing so much deposition- I trust this was pre-e85 and pre-rebuild?

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