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Posts posted by Billyk

  1. Thanks for the tables, they may be of use to some.


    Just curious, though - looks like there may be some errors - or I'm reading the tables wrong?  For instance - the first row of the first table:


    87 Octane (assume no alcohol) = 3.5 gal, mix with 11.5 Gal of E85 to make 15 gal of E20?


    11.5 gallons of E85 = 11.5 x .85 gallons of alcohol, or ~9.78 gallons of alcohol, this is the only alcohol in the mix, so 9.78 gal / 15 gal total = ~65%, so E65.  But if you flip the table headings, 3.5 Gal of E85 + 11.5 gal or regular ~ E20.




    Oops!  I did goof here by the "flip-flop" method.  I did this later on Sunday night and well, I failed to see my error.   I can redo this and repost it but...do you want me to post it in this thread or...can this site create a section where we can post stuff like this? 


    I decided to try posting this because I thought it would be easier/quicker to utilize at the pump (if one prints this out and uses it as a reference) then to "calculate" while at the pump.   I used a 15 gallon tank because my Escape Hybrid has it.  If this "Guide" is handy as a reference at the pump, then should a similar guide be created for 17 gallon tanks or 20 gallon tanks or...?  What are the other common size tanks for vehicles?   Finally should a reference like this be created for E40?   

  2. Here is an article dealing with the unmodified conversion of a 2003 Prius to E85: http://www.greenenergynetwork.com/media/studies/prius-e85.PDF


    The research was performed at Minnesota State University at Mankota in 2004 and realized:

    increased HP from E85:


    Table 1: Maximum power and torque comparison

    Fuel Type Maximum Power Maximum Torque

    Gasoline 64bhp @4500rpm 80lb-ft @4200rpm

    E-85 77bhp @4700rpm 106lb-ft @4250rpm

    Results showed the benefits of using E-85


    Simple seven page article  :)


    and reduced emissions except under a cold start where NOx was slightly higher.

  3. Hotrod, I enjoyed reading your article.  It improved my knowledge and awareness of ethanol and the internal combustion engine.  It makes me wonder if the "Joe SixPack" would be better off enlisting the assistance of a "professional tuner" rather than just purchasing and installing an E85 conversion kit in their non-FFV.  Or is it better to combine aftermarket kits with professional tuner shops? 

  4. Verasun received their 2008 Ford Escape E85 Hybrid last summer--June-- from Ford Motor Company on a two year pilot/research program.  There were 20 such vehicles delievered to various State/Federal Departments and Private Companies.  I have only read of one report --is it Renewable Fuels Association out of Washington DC? 


    see link:       



    in which this vehicle averaged 31 mpg around Seneca Lake.  I had my 2005 non-FFV Escape Hybrid in this area on June 7th, 2008 and averaged just over 31.7mpg on E30.


    Did Ford lend/lease? these vehicles out with the understanding that the users would put on more than 50,000 miles in two years so Ford can take these vehicles to the EPA for certification and then production?  I ask this because I have a contact who works for the Verasun Plant in Welcome, MN who actually talked to and knows at least one of the drivers for the Verasun Escape E85 Hybrid.  I asked him what monitors are in this E85 Escape Hybrid and was told it is all stock.  I was puzzled by this reply at the time--within the past month--but I  now believe Ford just needs these vehicles with 50,000 or more miles for EPA certification.  If this is correct, these vehicles could be presented to the EPA in July 2009 for this certification.  Your thoughts?

  5. Dan, you may be correct but I don't think the politicians will let GM totally hit the floor.  I am old enough to remember Chrysler being bailed out in 1979 with a 1.2 billion dollar loan and by 1983 they were making money and actually paid off the loan early.  All of the domestic automakers are adapting to a changing market.  Will the changes be too late, too little?  Time wil tell.


    This Costka cellulose development needs to be monitored closely.  If Costka's plant produces as advertised, GM (as well as other domestic vehicles) and consumers could significantly benefit from lower fuel costs and vehicles designed to run on E85.  The upcoming GM Volt (as other new domestic vehicles) is being designed to will run on E85 if the owner desires.  I don't believe the Asian automakers have put much effort into developing FFV or E85 capable vehicles.  GM could regain part of the new car sales market with this Costka development.  Then again, how long does it take to constructed large cellulose ethanol producton plants?  Is there "money-credit' available for such a development. 


    Somthing that is rarely discussed is the "carbon-neutral" or even "negative" factor with ethanol production.  I have read in the past few months that the newest plants will be "carbon-negative".  I'm unable to easily put this into easy to understand words and will have to refer this to someone else who has a better grasp of this concept.

  6. There is three Sheetz stores in the Pittsburgh region that offer E85.  :) There are many other Sheetz stores in this region.  There are no ethanol plants in southwestern Pa other than the Costka plant under construction in Madison, Pa.  This Costka plant will produce ethanol for GM and will serve as a demonstration plant that Costka wants to license the technology to others.  The major ethanol effort in Pa.  is occuring on the other side of the state where an Ethanol corriodor is being constructed into the Philadephia region--home of Pennsylvania's governor. 


    --"Industry has been trying to make cellulosic at a profit for 30 years.  They still haven't found a way.  Maybe in 10 years or so they'll find something.  We can't wait that long."--


    I would like to remind readers Costka is building a Cellulose ethanol plant in Madison, Pa.  (70 miles from where I live)  and claims ethanol can/will be produced for $1.00 a gallon.  At this price point, things could become extremely interesting in more than one way.




  8. If I read my information correctly, Ford sent out these 20 E85 Escape Hybrids with an agreement that this was to be a two year lease/trial program.  The Department of Energy has just acquired the PHEV (plug in version) Escape Hybrid that can run on E85 so data from this department should be published later this year.  Also the EPA has not tested/approved the emmission levels of the E85 Escape Hybrid vehicle as of now.

  9. I have yet to hear of an Escape Hybrid hybrid battery go south and there are vehicles (NYC taxi cabs) with over 200,000 miles without problems.   Then again, I am referring to the existing hybrid batteries and not the newest-still being developed--lithium ion PHEV version.


    There are no known case of a Prius battery failing either.


    Yes, I am aware of several Prius batteries going south.  This has been reported on other forums.  The Prius hybrid battery is only "vent' air cooled while the Ford Escape Hybrid has it own heating and cooling system.

  10. What does a plug-in Hybrid do to your home electric bill?


    Well, the way I look at it, a gallon of gas contains ~125,000 btu / gallon -of which about 1/3 powers your car- and it now runs about $4/gallon.  So you're paying $4 for about 125,000/3 = 42,000 btu's of "go power"


    Working backward with electric, a battery charger is ~80% efficient and your drive motor should be about 80% as well, so 64% overall.  To get your 42,000 btu's of "go power" you'd need 42,000 / 64% = 65,600 btu's of electricity.  That = about 19kW of electric power.  So pick your power rate...last I looked mine was .06/kwh... 10 cents makes easy math...about $1.90 in electricity.


    So what ever you spend in gas, expect to spend roughly half in electricity...but plan to put money away for the inevitable battery replacement / motor or controller burn out, etc.


    The hybrid battery are warrantied for 150,000 miles in the green states and 100,000 miles in other states.  I have yet to hear of an Escape Hybrid hybrid battery go south and there are vehicles (NYC taxi cabs) with over 200,000 miles without problems.  Then again, I am referring to the existing hybrid batteries and not the newest-still being developed--lithium ion PHEV version.

  11. Billyk, have you tried running any "intermediate" blends (e20 - e30) in your escape hybrid?  If so, what were the results?


    Yes.  I have run several tanks of E30 or near E30 as I have to mix E85 with gasoline to obtain the mixture.  I got 34.6 mpg with my Escape along I-80 traveling from Auburn, Indiana to Youngstown, Ohio area.  I was averaging 34.8 mpg with 87 octane prior to my E30 fillup.  I have to admit, I travel leisurely at 60 mph on the interstate highway.  I'm convinced using E25-30 range is the sweetspot for dollars per mile.  It is just too bad, E85 is only offerred in a few spots in Western, Pa where I live.

  12. I believe what they're doing with that engine is holding the intake valve open much longer during the compression stroke than a traditional engine.  This lowers the compression pressure to where it will work with gasoline, but the engine still has the greater expansion ratio of a higher compression engine.




    Don't worry, it's still optimized for gasoline.


    That is correct.  However does the Atkinson cycle provide an additional bonus in that it's higher compression will work better with E85 than the Otto cycle found in most non-hybrid vehicles? 


    Anyone have any information on real world data for the Ford E85 Escape Hybrid vehicles?

  13. Ford is working with a power company in Southern California and an Energy Institue on their PHEV Escape.  Rumor has it they are working on a "smart-monitor" that will cut off PHEV charging during peak electrical demands, will resume during low electrical demands and will send power back into the electrical grid as needed/desired.  Will have to wait for future details.

  14. I'm new here and been reading about E85 and ethanol blends in regards to my Escape Hybrid.  I have run several tanks of E30 on my vehicle with no problems.  However, E85 is difficult to locate in my area.  On this site, I read something like "engines with higher compression do better with E85 and ethanol blends then lower compression engines".    My 2005 Escape Hybrid has a 12.3 to 1 compression engine as stated on the Ford website at this link:  http://www.fordvehicles.com/suvs/escapehybrid/features/specs/


    However, the engine uses an Atkinson cycle and I don't know if this is the reason for the higher compression ratio.    If I am not mistaken, Ford Motor Company has 20 2008 E85 Escape Hybrid in the Midwest as stated in this article:




    It also mentions the E85 Escape Hybrid use larger injectors, fuel lines, fuel pump and have a software modification for the ECM-engine control module.  It is difficult to obtain information on how these E85 Escape Hybrid vehicles are performing in the real world.  I know one of them is in South Dakota.

    see this link for details:  http://www.greenhybrid.com/share/showimage.php?i=2951&c=8

  15. I got a 2005 Escape Hybrid and there is a third party vendor in Boulder--Hybrids-Plus--that can convert my vehicle into a plug in hybrid.  This would enable me to obtain nearly 40+ miles of pure electrical drive before requiring the internal combustion engine to kick on.  See the site for details.  The big drawback is the $32,000 price tag that includes installation.  Yes the newest lithium ion batteries are that expensive.  Mass production will drop the price tag to --unknown levels---.  Converting to E85 is a heck of a lot cheaper and easier to do than the PHEV route.

  16. In the last five weeks, I have tried E30 fillups with my stock 2005 Escape Hybrid.  I am pleased to learn there has been no noticable differences in vehicle operation and no check lights.  I have gotten as much as 34.6mpg on the highway (earlier that same day gas only mileage was 34.8) at my typical 60 mph.  I have gotten as much as 42 mpg (for a 52 mile trip) during slower speed, low traffic conditions in more rural areas. 


    I have difficulty in obtaining E85 where I live as the nearest station offerring it is a good 45 minute drive one way.  The new Costka ethanol plant in Madison, Pa is 70 miles away from where I live and this might induce more E85 stations in 2009.  In the future I might try a conversion kit or if I can get the Ford software for my a FFV go with larger fuel injectors and fuel pump.

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