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Everything posted by cessna

  1. I have a Cessna 180 that could legally use AGE-85 if I put the STC'd engine in. Texas Skyways has the paperwork to do this install on 180's and 182's but at this time that's about it for certified aircraft. I want to do this in the worst way but it is pricey. AGE85 is a little different than auto E85 in that it is 88% ethanol,11% pentane, and 1%biodiesel. Marty
  2. Just read this EPA Investigates Blended Ethanol Posted by Cindy Most cars are manufacturer-approved to run on up to ten percent ethanol blended with gasoline. Flex fuel vehicles can run on up to 85 percent. But the Environmental Protection Agency is looking into whether 20 or 30 percent ethanol-blended gasoline meets Clear Air Act standards. At issue, according to this story in the Aberdeen (SD) News, is that so-called blender pumps “are marked for use by flex fuel vehicles only. However, they operate the same way as regular gasoline pumps, so customers with non-flex fuel vehicles are able to put higher blends of ethanol than are deemed acceptable into their vehicles.” There are very few stations in the country offering multiple ethanol blends at a pump and the EPA question has already caused them to be shut down in South Dakota until the issue is resolved.
  3. Honda Ghandi, Will be glad when you post some data. Cessna
  4. 1outlaw, Please post here if and when blenders ever gain UL approval. I'm sure you'll be the first to know. Thanks, Marty
  5. Guess I better not use names here but I talked to the co op manager again---- Seneca Pump rep. for our area said DNR is using the theory that the use of E-85 renders the tank unfit for gasoline use----nothing to do with grant money. On an aside note, this Seneca rep is the same guy I talked to several years ago that said it was physically impossible to blend 10/90 and 15/85 %'s with blenders---that the draw from each of the two tanks had to be more like 60/40 45/55 and so on. 1outlaw and the guys from SD have already disproved that theory.
  6. Just talked to my cousin the co op elevator manager that would like to install E-85. Our Iowa DNR says if you install an E-85 tank and decide it doesn't pay you can't put gas in the same tank----sounds like some really good thinking going on in Des Moines. >
  7. I don't know about the lobby group thing. When I travel south blenders are everywhere but with a different mission---- there is a tank of low octane gas and a tank of premium and the pump pulls fuel from both tanks to make the inbetween octane ratings. In Carthage MO a few yrs. ago I saw a 5 button blender dispensing 87,89,91,92,and 93octane. All those ratings came from 2 underground tanks.
  8. Dan, I'd bet that Kum and Go will install a new pump and separate tank. That's why 1outlaw's system with the blender pump is the way to go. The little town I live in could have E-85 by swapping out the two existing pumps for blenders and modifying a pipe from one of their underground tanks that would be for straight ethanol and be in the 0,10,and 85% business for a lot less than the way Kum and Go will probably do it. DNR says that when UL approves blender pumps, it will be OK with them but until then. The other good point for blenders is there will not be E-85 sitting unused in a separate tank.
  9. This in the Farm Bureau Spokesman that came today. Sen. Chas. Grassley is pleased to announce that DOE has awarded 1.5 million $'s to Iowa Clean Cities' program. Kum and Go of W. Des Moines will use the funds to help install E-85 pumps in 24 existing stations in the midwest. 19 are in IA. Just think, that is $62,500 per tank and pump of "free money" to help with the install. I wonder what the total price per install will be doing it this way?
  10. 1outlaw, Thanks for responding. If you had some financial assistance from some other ethanol plants, would you consider tackling UL and big oil? One of the plants I invested in just posted a 200% return on investment and $1.80 was their highest netback per gallon shipped.
  11. Underwriters Laboratories Announces Advancement Toward Developing E85 Dispenser Safety Requirements NORTHBROOK, IL -- (MARKET WIRE) -- November 06, 2006 -- Underwriters Laboratories Inc. (UL) reported advancement today toward developing safety requirements for E85 ethanol dispensers following a two-day forum at its global headquarters Nov. 1-2. The technical forum, co-sponsored by the U.S. Department of Energy (DOE), featured 32 national experts discussing E85 fuel-dispensing system materials and the development of safety standards for E85 dispensers. Participants included automobile and petroleum company representatives, ethanol producers, dispenser and component manufacturers, industry associations, government agencies and researchers. UL, North America's leading safety testing and certification organization, said additional technical data is necessary from forum participants to assist in the standards development process. Forum participants agreed to provide UL with requested technical data no later than Nov. 15. UL's engineers will review all data collected and make a determination whether the technical information is sufficient for UL to draft test program requirements for E85 dispensers. Once the safety requirements are finalized, UL will immediately accept E85 dispenser investigations. UL would then propose the requirements for formal adoption through its normal standards development processes. If the requested data is not made available by Nov. 15 or the data provided is found to be insufficient, UL will need to undertake additional research prior to revising the safety requirements. "Our common goal was an efficient and effective delivery of the product in as safe an environment as possible. It is obvious that everyone has a wealth of information to share and consensus on a standard will be achieved in the spirit of cooperation," said John J. Fennell Jr., general counsel, Illinois Office of State Fire Marshall (IOSFM). "We are grateful to UL for making the forum possible and to the participants for their commitment to the common goal." The DOE said that in parts of the nation where E85 dispensers are located, state policymakers have already issued statements that allow dispensers to continue to be used, even as safety requirements are being established. "The technical forum co-hosted by UL and the Department of Energy has been very productive. Technical experts and scientists from across government and industry came together for the first time to discuss best practices and recommended safety procedures related to E85 dispensing," said Dennis Smith, technology development manager for the DOE. "Our next step is to continue working together to provide UL with the data it needs to develop safety requirements for E85 dispensing systems." On Oct. 23, UL distributed a communication to Authorities Having Jurisdiction (AHJs) explaining that it had suspended authorization of E85 dispenser components and that it would be updating its requirements. The primary concern addressed in UL's communication with the AHJ community was any potential material compatibility issues, specifically corrosive effects that E85 may have on dispenser components. To date, UL has not certified any motor fuel dispensers for use with E85. "For more than 112 years UL has been developing safety standards and testing products to help bring safer products to the marketplace," said John Drengenberg, UL's manager of consumer affairs. "E85 dispensing systems are no different, and UL is committed to appropriate, effective and timely safety standards." About UL Underwriters Laboratories Inc. (UL) is an independent, not-for-profit product safety certification organization that has been testing products and writing Standards for Safety for more than 110 years. UL tests more than 19,000 types of products annually, and more then 20 billion UL Marks appear on products each year. Worldwide, UL's family of companies and its network of service providers include 62 laboratories, and testing and certification facilities. For more information, visit http://www.ul.com/.
  12. I see they just had a big pow wow between UL,automakers, pump mfg's,etc. I'm wondering if 1outlaw can get in there and give some real life experience?
  13. Hi 1outlaw, I suspicioned it might be you when Dan M mentioned Utica. The E-85 coordinator in my area(NW Iowa) told me DNR was the bottleneck and gave me a number to call last fall I believe. When talking to the guy in Des Moines, I told him of my experience running 50/50 blends in unmodified vehicles for several years and a jar test with rubber and aluminum parts from my Cessna in E-85 with no problems. He said, until it's UL approved no dice. I suggested he do some testing for his own info and was told"we don't do testing". Anyway, as far as I'm concerned, you guys at Utica have been doing real world testing. UL is headquartered at Northbrook IL(not far from you). Is there anyway you could take your oldest pump down and say "here it is"? Is there any other lab that could check it out and influence UL into making an approval?
  14. Hi 1outlaw, I happened to fuel at a Renew station a year and a half ago and P. Younger was there checking the sales receipts for the day. I was surprised at the dispenser because I had talked to the Seneca pump guys in Des Moines and Omaha a couple of years earlier about a blender and they said there was no way to blend 15/85 and 90/10. I gave up, figuring they knew more than me. Then when I saw the Gilbarco over your way I contacted Curtis Donaldson at Clean Fueling in Texas. They are in the certification business for E-85 pumps and he finally told me to contact Dresser Wayne pump, which I did. For the last year I have been told "in a couple of more months it will be UL approved". I guess it boils down to, petroleum marketers don't want these pumps because they are too efficient and could cut them out. I have a friend with National Corn Growers and I don't think he wants blenders either and would rather see 80 to 100 thousand $ spent on separate E-85 tanks and pumps at just a few locations. It's too bad politics has to get in the way.
  15. I don't know how many people know about blender pumps, but that is the way to go in my opinion. I noticed these pumps in Arkansas a few years ago dispensing regular,midgrade and premium from one nozzle. After understanding what was going on, I thought, why not do that with ethanol. Calling around, everyone said it wasn't possible. A year and a half ago I went to the airshow at Oshkosh, WI and was surprised to buy E-85 being dispensed with a blender pump. Utica Energy, the local ethanol plant was starting to market their own fuel--- E-10, E-20, and E-85. They haul ethanol over from the plant and put it in a tank and then they have another tank with straight unleaded. The pump does the blending and because they are direct marketing the price at that time for 85% was 72 cents less the 10%. This year they have more stations and their E-85 was $1.10 less the the BP next door had regular priced. After finding out more, the state of WI gave them the OK even though the pump is technically unapproved. I've talked to the Dresser Wayne pump mfg. and they have been trying to get UL to get it approved but it seems UL is trying to go as slow as possible. The good thing about this setup is you don't have a separate E-85 tank that may not get used much.
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