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Posts posted by 1outlaw

  1. Cessna is correct - run a bit into a clear jar after you put about 2 gal in your car- if murky do not proceed.


    There are 2 main places rainwater can enter a modern underground fuel tank; 1) groundwater rises to the level of the top of the underground tank (this is usually about 4' below surface) and finds a poor seal on the fuel level gauge wire grommet, the cap seal for the same level gauge, tank top manhole seal, or submersible pump access seal. More likely would be 2) transport fill cap seal/overfill bucket lid seal. Because the 2nd one is most likely and can happen anytime the rainfall rate is heavy or slush/ice dams water around the fill lids-- I prefer to buy from stations that have tanks on top of a hill AND have those horrible raised concrete areas around the tank fills (yes- you know who has these because if you drive more than 5 mph you hit you head on the car roof ;D )

  2. Wow, you did a fantastic job of selling it there. No wonder the pics I took of E85 back in February showed it to be clear. I had assumed E85 was clear simply because of the large amount of alcohol content in the fuel.

    Again- if there is even a HINT of yellow- likely gasoline was used. Be aware that one oil company in at least 1 refinery does pride itself on having a clear gasoline but the likelihood it was used is near nil.

  3. How different is natural vs oil based gasoline?

    Much cleaner after refining than regular pump gas because of the nasty little deal that oil companies require natural gasoline (denaturant) to be 1/4 to 1/3 the sulfur content of gasoline. This product is water clear but is lower btu content than gas and lower octane- neither of which really matter in E85. Most of what I have seen has been over 90% pentane- one of the components found in gasoline. The odor is far less bitter/pungent than gas. If natural gasoline is used to make E85 you can normally tell by putting the E85 in a clean clear glass jar and hold it up to the light- the natural gasoline I have seen was always water color so the E85 will also look like water (since ethanol is clear). If it has a slight hint of yellow- it was likely blended with plain pump gas. The real advantage besides price with natural gasoline E85 blends are cleaner fuel and no crappy gasoline additives unless the terminal THOUGHT you needed one. The other advantage is that it has a higher vapor pressure so less natural gasoline is needed to get great starting.


  4. A couple of airplane guys from around Zanesville OH flew over to a 15,000 acre ranch just west of Wheeling WV. The guy has cows, fracking for natural gas that included wet gas. They said it consisted of butane, ethane, pentane, and propane. Also a coal mine. Anyway, is that where natural gasoline is coming from----wet gas from wells like that in eastern Ohio? If so, it is local for Ohio and Michigan.


    That is an excellent question Cessna --- this material MUST be refined- not used as is in order to assure an ultra ultra low sulfur content (thanks big oil for stiffing the ethanol business with that requirement). It does make me wonder if they are generating enough material in an area now to warrant a NE refinery for this stuff.

  5. No joke- today I paid $2.539 for E85 ($63.50 for 25 gal) and at the same station gasoline was $3.539. E15 was $3.439, E30 was $3.359. (Blender pumps). The station was the United Coop Cenex in Wyocena Wisconsin- these guys have an ethanol plant in Milton WI.


    :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)


    Dan-- my password is not working for E85 prices.com so I cannot report prices. I suspect my old email is also still on that website so I cannot see password resets- If you get a chance- change that email to the one I use on this site.

    :( :( :(

  6. Note:


    Today I paid $2.82 for E85 at the Speedway in Ypsilanti, MI.


    I SWEAR it must be E51 with "natural gasoline", because on the way home, my MPG jumped to 31 MPG highway.  The ONLY time  I ever got that high before (95% of the time I run about 23 to 24 MPG highway in my Impala) was when running pure E10 or pure gasoline.



    Either they blended a LOT of natural gasoline in that tank- OR----the delivery driver dropped a whole load of RBOB into the E85 tank.  There is no other way they could give me the MPG's I got tonight.


    With the right scan tool you can read your ethanol content the ECU is seeing in less than a minute Jim- Impala's give that as a readable output.


    You also can run the water test (not real accurate but only a little less so than the ECU readout) using this method; http://iqlearningsystems.com/ethanol/downloads/E85test.pdf


    A caution I would have for you with natural gasoline pricing is that it is a limited supplier market and Mount Belview hub is a LONG way from Michigan- even Conway is a LONG way away and these two markets are less relevant to local than NYMEX is to regular fuels. This prduct is typically barged up river, then off-loaded and trucked. A past common pricing scheme would be something like "Conway +35 or Conway +45" delivered (and Conway was typically 10 over Belview). Now I have been out of this a long time and things have likely changed a lot so without calling old friends for an updated net delivered price I can only guess. With the cheap and oversupplied natural gas market I am guessing that it has come down indeed- and yes, there were a few rare times in the past natural gasoline was under ethanol (but in those old days ethanol was often higher than gasoline in the winter).

  7. True but--- I have a hard time believing the blenders will go to any lesser % alcohol than the maximum allowed by law by season because I cannot ever recall a day when the economics to the blender was better to blend less alcohol than the maximum other than to transition thru seasons. There are places around the country that racers/performance guys were historically reporting in Jan/Feb they were getting 87% though the area they were in should have been 70% so if anything the blenders/station owners were cheating. I followed the recommendation- 17% hydrocarbons in the summer- 30% in winter. I see no NEED for 51% though there was some historic requests for E60 in N Dakota in the dead of winter but I also do not particularly have an issue with it except for the poor dudes that tuned a year-round daily driver with a carb for E70-83.

  8. So today, I filled up at the usual Marathon. The manager mentioned to me that he wishes they could get rid of the ethanol fuels, and that there is plenty of oil in the ground. Boy oh boy... if they get rid of any of the ethanol fuels... I will most definitely take my E85 business (and my dad will take his E15 business) elsewhere.


    Besides his perception that it is okay to burn up what your kids and grand kids might find useful for future possible purposes--what is his issue with ethanol?

  9. or get behind a massive expansion of a midblend like E50.  I really think E51% (which technically meets the E85 spec now) could really make an impact, because it's high enough in petroleum content to be close to gasoline in MPG's, and yet high enough in ethanol content to really hack away at the RIN numbers they need to get to. 


    Just try E51 at a few stations at a price close to today's E85 numbers, and you'll have people sucking it down because of the price/MPG advantage compared to gasoline.


    As Dan likes to say---"that ain't no alternative fuel" (50% that is) ;D  (sorry Dan- the devil made me say it)


    I am torn on E51 but one thing I will say- any fool who accidentally misfuels (not purposely-we are intelligent beings ;) ) will not have an issue-especially since they will have a remnant of E10 in the tank anyway.

  10. after the outboard boating people, the small engine people seem to be the biggest "anti-ethanol" people out there...


    I'm surprised that "they" would even consider this possible...


    Before long someone will look at the fuel related parts, and notice that they are using the same parts that they previously claimed that e15 would destroy! ;)



    Think about it-- for E85 automakers only had to do some programming in the PCM, some EPA testing, and somewhere between $0-$70 worth of parts for a total of what---less than 1/10th to 1/2 of 1% of the retail price-yet they put up a huge fuss. Now small engines--much higher % of the price would be for EFI and computer controls vs $5 carbs---they will be afraid that if they have to go from carbs to EFI consumers will delay buying (or buy that push mower LOL). They are not going to buy into FFV (or EFI) in very small engines unless EPA or states force them to--just like occurrred years ago with cars.

  11. You might want to visit this thread if you are thinking about trying E85 in a carb'ed engine but want to see what it is like before converting your carb. I have followed these guys a long time and they know what they are doing. What triplenickle did here was go to E45 with his existing (race) gas carb- but he has a lot of experience running full E85 in his other car (a glide).



  12. TD and others have made a pretty good list there- one thing I would add- I found in to be consistant in cold/cool weather was once started- drive it until fully warm. Those donuts you can buy about 1-2 miles from your house not only adds spare tire (gut) weight to your vehicle  ;D  but also can cause the ECU/PCM to put the engine back through cold start/cold warmup enrichment all over again. So if you NEED donuts- buy them 5-10 minutes after hitting the road. Over the years on E85 I found that would make 1-2 mpg difference/tankful on a 24 mpg car with 35 mile drive cycles.


    Additives for gas or ethanol- don't waste your money unless you have a known issue related to your very short drive cycle or poor injector design (hot soak). Those issues are extremely rare with E85. Most of those additive products are very high gross margin items with little to no benefit-some are even detrimental. They are promoted so heavily due to the profit available in selling them. There are a few great products out there but they are few and are targeted to solve specific issues (such as Techtron) so buyer beware. The diesel fuel world is different-there is a greater and consistant need there for additives and there are some good/some poor. With gasoline and ethanol- all you need are already required by governing bodies.

  13. Gasisoutragious- around here there is a lot of sand that will blow around- and more of it comes when people use the squeege to wash their car with it instead of the windshield. If you ever do use a dirty wash make sure to dip the squeege in and out rapidly in the upper part of the fluid only or you will sooner or later scratch the windshield with sand embedded in the squeege from the bottom of the bucket. :)  If Speedway starts having to buy windshields they will change their policy.


    We finally have a 40 cent spread here- 3.29 for E85 and 3.69 for E10 at KT.

    Gas is going up again- my bet is that KT will not widen the spread in spite of the fact that NYMEX RBOB to CBOT Ethanol is a 95 cent spread now.

  14. I would wager that this guy even caused his own cat converter issues in his quest for the almighty MPG. My bet is that in order to "win" at the mpg game he put everything in his tank from acetone, injector cleaners, fuel components, and certain metal additives such as MMT. The latter group (of OTC additives) in particular can contaminate cat converters and ruin them- given what I remember from his past comments he would not have a clue what he was doing to his car.

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