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Posts posted by 1outlaw

  1. I would suggest pumping into a 2 1/2 gal container, then sampling from that. This is particularly important if from a blender or a multi-product dispenser which could hold a quart in the manifold of the pump. Collect this sample towards the end of filling your car.


    Let E85 sample be at the same temperature as the (preferably distilled) water used in the sample. Play close attention to settle times- don't rush it but do not wait more than 10 minutes either.


    The sample method I posted was the one recommended by the DOE over the years- less water makes for more variation.

  2. Addict- please list vehicle model, year, miles, etc. There were programming issues with several models concerning the algorithm used to calculate alcohol content. Also- do you fill and drive at least 5 miles before shutdown or possibly fill within <2 miles from home after switching fuels.


    Do you ALWAYS run E85 or switch sometimes?


    Have you rerun the test on the E85 alcohol content? If so how did you collect your sample- from hose or a 2 1/2 gal container?


    BTW- my personal and former small fleet of FFVs put on around 1 million miles on E85- with not one issue other than the programming issue. All of those vehicles to my knowledge are still alive. Two of them are in the hands of my boys and have >240,000 miles on them and still with 100% original fuel systems. Same for the old Taurus I drove.

  3. Here is the correct way to test E85- see link.


    No- selling E98 is not legal unless from a blocked pump and labeled as E98 for race vehicles only (at least that is Wisconsin's rules-- EPA is likely the same)


    It is very unlikely you got E98- more likely something is going on with your engine. Be aware that the water test for E10 is relatively accurate (will test E8-E12-- so within 2-3%) and the states watch very closely for E10 being higher than labeled. The water test for E85 is very inaccurate. Being off 5% is very common- temp, fossil gas used, water used, sit time, and such are just too variable. Have often seen racers claim they are getting E90 when I am sure this is not the case. Another test uses a GM test tool with a drop as a sample- time exposed to air and equip calibration also create variability. State labs often dilute E85 with gas down to where they can use their chromatographs then extrapolate back- also not real accurate.


  4. Significant acreage of tobacco was once grown in Wisconsin- particularly in an area from Jefferson to Madison to Janesville/Milton, Another area was in western WI up in the hills and valleys of Vernon and Crawford counties (south of Lacrosse) The western WI stuff was for cigar wrappers and came in two types- hill (needed more sunlight) and valley. No reason those areas could not produce again for fuel purposes though the western fields were often 1-3 acre plots too small for mechanization but for hand harvest of high value tobacco it paid off- might not for fuel.

  5. Well I am a lot out of date on this topic regarding the current CO2 market prices and while the purity of this CO2 for oil well recovery is likely much poorer- we sold CO2 of food grade quality (not the higher beverage grade) for a price in the 20's/ standard ton FOB our plant. It was used as dry ice for meat chilling in a packing plant. While the purity of this stuff for the pipeline might be easier to process I am thinking that given all the compression energy required then $10/ metric ton is a certain loser UNLESS this puts the plant's ethanol rating into an advanced ethanol RIN type. B)

  6. Thanks for checking in Carson- Good to hear Denco is doing this. Over the years too few of producers have done this and yet as you are doing this it remains low risk to you because it is a small % of your production--if only all plants did the same then today the E85 would be much larger. The plant I worked at was about 10% of production.


    Good Job!


  7. Just a suggestion- do an oil analysis on 1) a fresh oil sample (unless the lab you send to has your brand/type already and 2) do an oil analysis on your 11,000 mile sample. Some engines (like Ford Taurus) will not put carbon into your oil and thus will not darken it- that is not an assurance that you are not building acids or silicon however. While I am guessing you are right because the extremely low sulfur content of E85 and clean burning will keep oil clean longer- it would still be wise to verify. I had customers sample and they were indeed getting longer life.

    Still- also remember the worst (after leaking antifreeze) pollutant in oil is silicon (dirt/sand) from poor air filtration and this is far greater risk IF you spend any time on gravel roads.

  8. Yes Cessna- the one I was at was a Delta T and the ring dryer was not even at the plant. Due to local ordinances it was located 5 miles away. :lol: It had a number of small fires which were CO2 contained. Water would not have been as good in that application. Perhaps water dumped into a drum drier is ok but in a ring dryer it might have blown the blast doors out with steam.

  9. I too hope no one has been hurt. Understand though that fires in distiller dryers are quite common and GENERALLY a long distance to ethanol lines, tanks, & distillation towers with a lot of flame proof materials between. Typically what happens in these dryer fires is that some distillers cakes onto a hot surface, moisture drops, temps rise and suddenly you have a smoldering hot spot. There is normally an automatic fire system that suppresses the flame by opening valves to dump C02 into the space. These valves/sensors are not infallible.

  10. Thanks Dan- by trying a some different stuff I got it to work. I just had not put the time in it to find the link button. I had tried doing just the normal copy/paste like I used to without using any buttons but that did not work. I had tried pasting into Word and that did not work either for some reason- anyway- I'm good for now.


    Was just thinking today Dan- 9 years ago I was preparing to excavate for the first blender pump E85 station. Time flies. At that time there were 10 e85 stations in Wisconsin- all in Madison or Milwaukee and none moving more than 3,000 gal/year. When that first station opened we had an 85 cent open house and on day one sold 5,000 gal of e85, E10, and E20-- of that E85 was over 3,000 (more than the others sold in a year). Of course 85 cents helped :D ADM tore down this station to build new grain bins but to their credit as we built more stations in nearby towns sales slid somewhat.

  11. http://www.thechargingpoint.com/news/Llewellyn-Plugs-In-An-Arctic-roll-in-the-Volvo-C30-Electric.html



    Llewellyn Plugs In: An Arctic spin in the Volvo C30 Electric




    Robert tries out Volvo’s pure-electric test car in sub-zero temperatures


    By Robert Llewellyn on March 23, 2012 11:02 AM



    There is always the painful dichotomy of travelling in an aircraft for 1,500 miles to drive an electric car 60 miles, have some lunch and then fly 1,500 miles back home. Quite simply, if you think too hard about it, you go mad.


    That’s what I did last week – got an early morning flight from Heathrow to Kiruna in Northern Sweden, north of the Arctic Circle. The whole place was deep in proper snow, snow that won’t melt until late April. It is cold up there, very cold. Mid-winter temperatures of -25ºC are not uncommon.


    When I went it was a balmy -8ºC and the Swedes were all walking around in T-shirts and shorts. Okay, not quite, they are very sensible and well prepared, a bit like the Volvo C30 Electric. I had driven the car before on another jaunt to the Volvo works at Gothenburg, but that was just UK cold, nothing special.




    This car is, like so many other pure electric models from big manufacturers, not for sale and they have only made 250 of them for testing purposes. It’s a sophisticated conversion of the standard C30, so it did start life as a fossil burner. That said they’ve done a very good job, it’s ultra safe (I’ve seen the crash test footage), has about the same range as the Nissan LEAF, it’s smooth, nippy and handles very well, even on sheet ice... but more of that later.


    Because the temperature was only -8ºC, Volvo stored the cars in freezer containers overnight, bring the temperature inside and outside the car to a bracing -25ºC. Let me tell you, that is proper cold. When I got in the car there was ice on the inside of the windscreen, the steering wheel felt like my hands would freeze to it. The seats were like blocks of ice, even the gear shift thingy was frozen.




    I pressed the ‘On’ switch and the car came to life immediately. I faffed around with the heating controls but before I could do anything fans started whirring and a blast of warm air came out of the vents. I also noticed that the heated seats started to thaw out my frozen cold weather gear that Volvo had kindly supplied. Within about two minutes the interior of the car had gone from -25 to +22c. I had to get out and shed massive coats – I was boiling.






    "Within about two minutes the interior of the car had gone from -25 to +22c. I had to get out and shed massive coats – I was boiling."





    So the battery must have taken a real pummelling, right? I’m used to the LEAF, in which using the heater takes 10 miles off the range in very low temperatures. Not so with the Volvo – it makes no discernable difference. The fans use very little power and the heat wasn’t coming from the battery. The Volvo is fitted with an ethanol heater. It doesn’t smell – it’s all very contained and Swedish – but it makes a cold car very warm very quickly. It produces 12 kilowatts of heating power in what seems like an instant.




    There is a 12-litre tank for the ethanol. Volvo was using bio-ethanol but you can use regular petrol just as well. The heater uses half a litre an hour if you leave the heating on all the time. That's good for a solid 24 hours worth of heating, which is pretty reasonable. However, I soon discovered that you really didn’t need it on all the time – once the cab was warm I drove more than 60 miles with it off and I wasn’t the slightest bit chilly. I think the Swedes are quite good at insulation too.


    The car is really a development prototype for, reading between the lines of the comments from Volvo staffers, a future built-from-the-ground-up electric model. As far as heating goes, there’s nothing to touch it at the moment, truly impressive.


    But the Volvo is amazing on snow-covered roads, which made up 90% of the journey they sent me on. The car was fitted with standard cold weather tyres – no studs – and it just sailed along very peacefully through the endless woodlands of Northern Sweden. I was keeping an eye out for Husky dogs pulling sleds (a common sight) and Reindeer (even more common). I didn’t hit anything and if the silent electric car really is a menace to man and beast that particular daft hypothesis wasn’t tested.




    What was tested in the afternoon were my nerves. I ended up on a frozen lake. Yeah okay, the ice was thick but I was driving across it in a car. There were cracks in the ice; Swedish ice is very pure, very clear, and I could see through it to the deep water below.


    I was there to take part in a slalom competition, driving flat out in a C30 Electric, this time with studded tyres. I gunned it across this vast super-flat ice rink. The car slewed around like a drunk bloke on skates when I drove it, but I was having fun – I was doing pirouettes, baby. Sadly this resulted in me coming fifth in the rankings. That is, fifth out of six.


    However, I am very proud to relate that on the long drive we did in the morning, myself and my driving partner Nikki Gordon-Bloomfield came first, using the least amount of energy to complete the journey. The light-right-foot brigade did not let you down.

  12. Just was reading on-line that the coal industry is having a hard time moving coal to the power plants and some plants have gone off line. Good thing the ethanol industry is going because without that the rails would be hauling 2X as much grain as ethanol due to bulk though granted it is likely more 1:1 moving eastward into PA, NY, etc.

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