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fleebut

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Everything posted by fleebut

  1. I'll post one more on the small quanity generator. Lol, ya off topic, yet not worthy of separate post. My assumptions: 1. Hot air turbine the most practicle efficient engine ever, much more efficient than the steam turbine technology the power plants use. One ceramic turbine at 50% thermal efficiency. Wilson. 2. Ethanol takes lots of thermal energy for distillation with tons of water vapor. This could be used for great house hold water. 3. Neighbor hood power facilities have an extreme advantage of working with neighbors, balancing loads, easy connections, and little line or pumping loss. No transformers required. Grounds can be hard wired back to electric generator. 4. This setup extremely flexible for combined heat and power or what they called co-gen. The overall efficiency could be extreme. 5. Hot water and space is just about free as low grade heat hard to utilize upon processes. Their are not many close by available heat loads that can utilize low grade heat. Industry usually dumps this heat to atmosphere...cooling towers. 6. Sewage and water utilities also easy to adapt since hundreds of gallons of water vapor floating about the ethanol stills. Also, ethanol a big utilizer of grey water. Also, process water from ethanol not distilled very nutrient rich for lawns. Organic fertilizer i.e. leaving chopped leaves and grass just incredible good for lawns, even in cold months application is fine as nutrients do not disappear as no run off. 7. Urine production a valuable commodity a perfect nitrogen. So houses should have at least one toilet plumbed into the number 1 fluid steam. Second toilet for number 2 and that also a good manure, just requires additional processing. The lawns, shrubbery, and trees would blossom. Grey water if available also a wonderful irrigation liquid. Now, some cities have grey water utilized this way, but have to flow the liquid for miles to process plant, then pump the stuff miles for use. This creates some smelly biologicals. The local unit can have daily change over...odor gone. Tree growth can 10x. I have tested this tree growth upon grey water for a decade. It is amazing how fast a tree can grow giving optimum conditions. 8. Consider this...that Wilson ceramic turbine generator mentioned above is cost effective because of such high efficiency in production of electric, alone. Meaning direct price competition with utility company depending on actuals, but right there. So, consider the huge thermal waste stream free energy. This waste stream can be balance easily in local zone of hot water heat, space heating, A.C., ethanol distillation...etc. If you landscape the lawns to farm quallity products another revenue stream. Households just learning the payback i.e. $3,000 for a veneer quality tree, black walnut trees, high grade clover feed, nut trees, fruit trees, berrie production, bush fruits, etc. You see this back yard farming can be adding $1,000s of pay to neighbor hood revenue stream. Maybe providing some kids summer jobs, providing high grade organic food and sales, pelleting clover for high grade horse feed. Most folks unaware how productive a 1/2 acre parcel can be....you will greatly increase production upon earth box or hydroponics and again if heating some planting beds with waste heat and green house. These need not be ugly, and have been implemented within suburban territory. 9. If you throw in community doing it own road work, i.e. snow plowing and home schooling.....well the tax base should only be a fraction. May the neighbors be a very good protection and control? Better than police force or fire department. Big centralized systems not always effective i.e. union run public schools, union run police and firemen. Would the money go farther upon decentralized institutions....you bet.
  2. The first book I remember reading was a biography of Henry Ford. This guy was well respected within my family. Was that human waste ethanol, landfill waste? Meaning not excrement. but house hold landfill solid waste? If that the case...ya GE has a device or machine using plasma...a welding process much like tig except the electrode up in nozzle. Anyways the the heat of plasma close to sun temperature. The GE process basically melts garbage to elements and provides the feed stock for another company process. In my humble opinion, seems a tad expensive to me, as another company merely gasifies the typical landfill waste and makes ethanol via microbes. This the process GM invested in. My guess, EPA or Energy department goes ga ga when these companies can make ethanol from landfill. Then the easy money flows. LOL, the corn and sorghum ethanol makes it happen, has much more stable capability, and just getting started upon technology improvements. These plant feedstock will be around for awhile.
  3. The Capstone turbine has been out for some years. Actually a aviation engine. They added foil bearing to engines, a new break through technology that allowed for quick start ups. Before that they liked to run them continuously. The engines have air bearings that dynamics kick in at something like 30k rpm. The foil bearing keep the axle aligned and in position until then. These units are quiet with high temp exhaust. Most will co-gen with steam engine or for process heat. An Engineer Foung (sp) I think it was, utilized a Bartell gasifier (sand design) producing higher btu wood gas through hot air turbine. The efficiences were amazing. I did a calculation on the projected energy stream. One logger cord wood per day for 30 kwh and with little loss of heat. Another company picked up design and has built small commercial generator plants. Michigan has one for wood chips. Overseas they use them burning nut shells. These are utility grade plants not the 30 kwh Capstone system. The Capstone generators cost around $20 to $30 k. You could have gotten some cheap after military brought them back from Iraq. They purchased fuel oil burners and couldn't fine fuel or something like that and had to bring them back at huge discount, they were selling for $9k. Capstone sell a lot of simple, natural gas units. Just plumb into natural gas line and you could be your own generation company within days end. Plumb the exhaust and electric push the button. The dead and rotting tree story is big in some parts of country. Our Western states getting hit hard. My daughter worked at Snow Mountain YMCA last summer. The trees (Winter Park snow ski area) all but gone. The Pine Worm (I think it is) moving fast. Down in local watering hole met a contractor that has logged the region for years. A California native that goes to Colorado for summer work. He had to lay off his crew as state funds ran out. He explained to me the fire tinder is horrendous and scary. It wouldn't take much to light up upon some of those windy dry summer days. The logger tried to find a market for logs, but they just haul to dump as least cost. Pine is not premium wood pellets, but very good. Guess the tree kill off was to quick to set up processing plants in region. Also, wood pellet market out their is saturated. So they let them rot under ground belching methane gas. Canada has a huge land mass of dead pines suffering same fate. Around here we have a smaller problem of Ash borer. You can't transport the wood. If you have a wood burner fine, but no transporting wood to neighbors. Now if you had a small pellet mill, that's o.k.. Wood pellets have no survivable insects. The peat moss fires around world are amazing. Some of these burn for decades. They can't put them out. Guess we are not so powerful as compared to nature after all? If energy cost inflate like expected, some company will specialize upon this conversion. Making proposals for small blocks of neighbors to go off grid, off water and sewer and establish a Co-op. Probably a financed kit solution where if everyone agrees and payment from savings. Wires and piping connect to centralized parcel. Heck, this private utility station could handle electric, garbage, recycling, hot water, steam heat, cooling, grey water distrubution, fresh water, distilled, ethanol, etc. very efficiently as so local. Since customers are invested they would be more willing or flexible upon energy savings. Legally, if off the water sewer lines you can pump ground water....just now the regulators have it all gummed up as would demand utility license, permitting, inspections, etc. a no deal. But it does make economic sense....lots of it. The system just unacceptable as government and politicians would lose power. Union constituency also would lose. They would fight simple solutions. I would think this system would create jobs and save money. No grid required and much higher reliability. Power quality would also be superior. This idea the ultimate for co-generation. Using all energy streams. The system has lots of flexibility for balancing energy loads. The system generator as efficient as utility company, yet no 20% line loss and able to utilize the heat an advantage the utility company can't match. The wood gasifier technology, also mature and just about an off the self item nowadays. Seems ethanol from Allard trying to do the same. These turbines have extreme fuel flexibility as long as clean and without water. Natural gas, ethanol, and wood gas. Pick the current market low cost fuel or mix them up.
  4. Capstone is struggling financially. My wife works at hospital that could benefit from Co-generation, as they use much natural gas for boilers. The benefit as you know from co-generation they could be pulling out 30 kva out of that fuel stream. But, it's not a tremendous savings. Truth is very hard to compete agaist the grid. These electrical producers have huge generation plants already paid for and use low cost nuclear or coal fuel. The cost of electrical is set to explode, however, if cap and trade is implemented. You notice how government discovered easy ploys to turn the market system agaist itself with no cost to them. GW utilized cap and trade upon pollution credits agaist the will of left who back then demanded to shut down i.e. older coal plants. Come to find out upon reality this cap and trade system really stoked the profit making sector to make investments....this a good thing for bad pollution. GW's environmental record the best, yet they will not credit the guy as they pull in the CO2 pollution (something new) to claim he is the most polluting CIC in history. Well, by that measure Canada is the most polluting country on earth present as they have thousands of hecta acres of forest rotting because of the pine beetle. It is funny that our biggest energy requirement is space heating and cooling. Yet this the easiest to accomplish. For instance Canada has the largest CO2 emitting condition on earth because of all those rotting trees. You could turn it upside down and completely change the situation by pelleting the wood and burning pellet fuel upon space heating. This should be the highest priority of those concerned with CO2 emissions. You see, they are not really interested in solutions. No they are interested in change. The Global Warming stuff just an excuse. Much more effective when considering line loss and co-generation efficiences. Utilizing fuel for small electrical generation, maybe even homesteads. Yes the space heat just a by product or waste product. You can be competitive with grid electrical pricing especially upon retail cost. Same for cooling. Those thermal chillers the most efficient technology. These environmentalist could produce more change by reeling in regulators and allowing innovation. For instance one house upon a city block could make a living generating energy. That's right. Someone with a technical degree could make a living staying at home....how? By solving our energy crisis. Think of a small electrical producer such as micro turbine powered by fuel. Fuel either natural gas, wood gas, or ethanol. First the Capstone turbine is rock stead regulated current with ultra low down time record. So, a small quanity generator could interconnect to the neighbors. Interconnects customized for thermal and electrical needs. A standard PLC control to level load consumption. Control heating and cooling loads upon real schedules. You know this makes so much sense, even upon economics. Just normal off the shelf products. You could plumb the water, electric, sewer, ethanol gas, ethanol fuel, whatever. Distillation of ethanol beer one such heat load. Using grey water one such load, providing coolant by thermal chiller one load, production of electric another load, providing hot water or steam another, distillation or condensation another supply for ultra clean water. Heck, this energy household could insulate a dug out for underground ice storage. In winter produce tons of ice for summer time cooling. This has tremendous energy efficiency...much better than ground heat pumps. May this miro energy household actually include a ethanol production equipment. Like Allard "factory on a skid" with grain bin and tank storage. Yes, very easily if not for the horrendous regulation industry with old stuck in the ditch thinking. This solution superior to irregular energy production of windmills or solar cells and would cost a fraction of that solution. Also, those folks won't tell the public they will easily lose 30% upon long distance grid transfers. We spend a fortune upon municipal sewage. In older days they considered it an valuable asset upon farming. It still should be. It's one of the best. Urine for instance is perfect with no health hazard. If handled correctly a perfect liquid fertilizer if diluted and controlled. The solid waste must be pasteurized at higher temperatures to kill any potential pathogens and parasites. Milwaukee does this and sell one of the best fertilizers on the market Milorganic is sewage waste. With the system described above for local control, may part of the energy cycle just to dehydrate solid waste to produce fertilizer at little cost? My neighbor an expensive consultant to municipalities. The newest EPA approved process for handling sewage? The normal ponding process dumps treated sewage in waterways then the sludge processed in vacuum chamber and cooked. So why is it we have so much river flooding and our terrestrial aquifers keep depleting? Well, were not putting water upon the land anymore. Michigan State University did a long term study finding the normal biological world upon our lawns the best processors of sewage. You will increase tree growth 4x to 10x. Include some cattail ponds or typical wetland plantings...perfect. Grey water itself good for ethanol production. The fast turnover grey water system a big advantage and capable multiple turnovers with some of those natural gravel filtration systems used for fishing ponds. Anyways way to much info....better go.
  5. Ya, that book I've heard good. Was waiting for by brother to hand over his copy, but getting impatient. I am a big proponet of those micro turbines that David probably was playing with. They are extremly flexible upon fuel. Some actually fueled from wood gas. One company has a semi trailer with electrical equipment, gasification furnace, and micro turbine generator that can park upon your cellulose pile and produce 30 kilo power per hour. That would be $4.20 dollars retail per hour for my electric. Funny thing, one of the leaders of micro turbine technology located in California and had the equipment available during their electrical crisis some years back. Those folks only needed to look in phone book to solve the problem. These systems almost maintenace free and about as big as a refrigerator. They produce enough power for 12 to 30 homes. They produce this power with little loss in btu heat, yet pull out 30 kilo watts hrs electricity. Ethanol would be a perfect fuel for turbine electricity. Check out Capstone Micro turbine and realize why taking electric generators for utilities upon open market competition was a brilliant idea, that California started. No the media utilized the malaise to propagandize or hammer open markets solutions. Do you realize the same happening nowadays. Whats with these folks, may McCarthy been right? We have a bunch of Union Communist try to flip the country? Most of them earning wages upon media. Pretty much. One company Wilson Turbine has a ceramic low speed turbine running at 50% thermal efficiency....that is a record upon efficiency. I would think, the small quanity generator of ethanol such as a farmer could utilize his ethanol for record level summer electrical rates. Meaning a micro-turbine about the size of a refrigerator fully automated regulated current and maintenance free push button operation could produce a very attractive money steam for years to come.
  6. I was reading an EPA study on ethanol. They mentions the diesel manufacturers are including spark plugs for new engine design. They do this for flex fuel capability. Ethanol runs better with spark ignition at typical diesel compression ratios. An advantage to have flex fuel within truck fleet as we now know how expensive diesel fuel can get. Also, the truck companies probably gain credits from government for CAFE standards when introducing flex technology trucks. May the engine manufactures discovered an easy solution to cold start up. To remove glow plug and simple adapt spark ignition for warm up. Wonder if they utilize the spark plug in addition to direct injection ignition or just for start up and running ethanol. I bet these engines have capability to run e100 hydrous very efficient. Much like the EPA study posted about. Or do you think the Diesel engine manufacturers simply adapting the low cost engine technology the EPA suggest (low cost port injection). Anyway the article sounding like this was a done deal and wholly adapted by industry. Has anyone else read of this?
  7. "Emissions from Ethanol Fueled Vehicles" Mark Pitstick Center for Transportation Research Was an interesting read. The report elements/ determination..... ethanol a better fuel as far as air pollution, especially if teamed up with the tri-metal converters, also per Hotrod info. The fuel is almost good enough to go without converter. The report gives corn ethanol a black eye from Global warming perspective. Why? The field fertilizer and if processors use coal. If processors use corn stubble, wood, or natural gas...ethanol a better fuel as compared.. The report mentioned aldehyde production of ethanol burning to be a concern, but also the converter solution. Guess their is some scientific debate whether aldehydes in atmosphere result from atmospheric reactions instead. Meaning, spouting aldehydes not the problem as much as the atmosphere generating them. A personal note: This science of pollution is very impressive, the EPA stuff. They are getting a good grasp of chemical reactions. The G-8 type countries pouring lots of resources into this science to minimize damage to environment or increase livability of planter. It's a good thing. Yet, the wacky environmentalists ruin it all and demand we all shame ourselves. They demand extreme solutions. Pushing regulators, scientist, conversationalist, etc. to the max.. I agree with your posts on the subject, yet have a desire to read up on the science. I am convinced these G8 type countries have and continue to greatly limit pollution problems. We should celebrate. Yet, this stuff seems to gain inertia once started seems to crank up upon emotions and hyperbole ruining it for all. Our country presently has it just about right. Doing the R&D and making improvement. No dramatic change needed. Sure wind turbines, solar panels, house insulation, are good measures, but not required to prevent imminent death of planet. Way to much propaganda about to hype up citizenry. The U.S. is spending ever more upon ever more decreasing improvements of environoment. All the low hanging fruit picked. The challenge is upgrade the rest of world. Thought this was interesting, but well known. "Because of ethanol's higher octane rating, the compression ratio of ethanol engines can be higher than that of gasoline engines, which results in greater fuel efficiency and power density. Ethanol's flame speed and other combustion properties also increase efficiency and power. The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) estimates efficiency improvements of about 30% for neat ethanol (E100) in advanced dedicated vehicles, but only about 2.5% for near-neat ethanol (E85) in flexible fuel-vehicles (FFVs) (9). Conventional (contemporary) dedicated ethanol vehicles can achieve efficiency gains similar to methanol vehicles. Greater fuel efficiency partially makes up for the lower energy content of ethanol, which is only about 67% as much as gasoline on a volume basis."
  8. This alternative Global Warming hypothesis based on Shindell, whom mostly believes weather events not caused by burning fossil fuel producing CO2, but of ozone inter actions and production from CH4 methane. Also, actions of water vapor, sunlight, VOCs, and nitrous oxide. Some how the oxygenated fuel additives not good, but does appear to remove air smog. MTBE additive was horrible, anhydrous ethanol not as bad. This guy is promoting hydrous ethanol as a better fuel as not propagating GHG. He states all the concerns you speak of as far as energy independence and benefits of domestic produced energy. He claims taking out the last few percentages of water makes for a highly reactive fuel upon metals and environment. I'm guessing some talk of water in ethanol hazardous to metal in terms of water corrosion....others talking of chemical activity of pure ethanol....meaning two different concerns. May the global warming argument be a problem for ethanol? May the chemical reactions within atmosphere be of concern irregardless? If so, for a myriad of reasons would hydrous ethanol be superior product? Actually, presented as a GHG solution? If it were to prove out, well, ethanol would get a big bump in production. Renergie has made news lately of managing a large real world study of hydrous ethanol fuels. They have good info on their web blog promoting hydrous ethanol purely from economics and fuel quality. Little did they know the fuel may also be superior upon GHG production. Note, the fuel need not actually produce GHG as much as produce O3 or O2 for problems if you know what I mean. Ya, I don't think CO2 myself much of a problem, but willing to listen and read the experts. Of course if the experts go political as so fashionable nowadays be very wary. Science by definition should be held to rigorous review. Example; listen to archeologist defend Evolution creation theory and know these folks fighting to protect lively hoods and reputations as so invested upon the science. Watch the movie Expelled to gain some insight of corruption of science. To many problems with PC, politics, university biases and gov't grants bequeathed to those in agreement.
  9. I hear you on statistics. Two types of liars, dam liars and statistics. However the article more of a history of what happened and why. Also, reflecting the present science upon Global warming. From my research appears up to date and accurate. The article from "Lorton Show" based on NASA Goddard scientist Shindell who appears to be non political low key guy and the man of Global Warming science. This guy expert on computer modeling and ozone. His peer we all know to well, Hanson is hyper political and trying to lead the band of Global Warming political CO2 alarmist, (friend of Al Gore). Note even Hansen has a backup theory on global warming....ya that's right Shindell's theory. Here is the nutshell version, 2rd source from science site: So graphs have been drawn up and spread all over Washington DC and capitol cities throughout the world showing parallels between warming trends and CO2 levels. But what this view of the issue ignores is that these other pollutants of chlorofluorocarbons, methane, nitrous oxide, low level ozone, and ozone precursors of nitrogen oxides and non methane volatile organic compounds that Hansen says is his second theory is causing weather pattern changes. This theory is Shindell first and only theory, is that they are naturally occurring pollutants as well as manmade while they all eventually turn into carbon dioxide as they break down in the atmosphere to become inert. What it all means: CO2 is present at higher concentrations during global warming as scientist check history, but CO2 not near the biggest culprit. Meaning those other low level pollutants the bad boys, but break down and become CO2. Probably by degradation from sun radiation. We can't check upon history the culprits as they break down to soon. Also, particulates (diesel and coal ) increase warming while rain droplets (within clouds) if clean reflect heat to outer space. Many postings out there expressing concerned with inadequacy of now outdated computer models.....truth was we did not know how climates acted before man made pollutants. This all ties in on ethanol and gasoline additives greatly adding to global warming problems and why hydrous ethanol the champion. This science was delivered to Obama, recently.
  10. It's the Lorton Show....my first post was a miss spell. Its quite a read, but written for non technical people. May the science be on a tipping point to solve this Global Warming? The postings seem to be as accurate as my understanding of this science. Wow, if its that simple and the whole global science just had a bad start, ran off the track mostly by political aspirations and desires.....well may we still be able to dodge the bullet? Even though most encourage immediate disassembly of our energy infrastructure to save Planet Earth. It could have whole sale destroyed national economies in attempt to chase a popular environmental boggy man. If the science on the web site has merit....well hydrous ethanol would be top national priority. If the science on the "Lorton Show" is correct, but not the entire reason for Global Warming...well hydrous ethanol would still be a very high national priority. Anybody else know anything of this?
  11. While doing a google search for ethanol regulation hit upon a this site: The Lorton Show Seems to have much a bunch of alternative global warming science writing. Not that it exist or not, but from a historical political development slant i.e. NASA climate science politics: Hansen -v- Shindell. Anyways, this guy puts anhydrous ethanol as a terrible pollutant of Global Warming. But, describes hydrous ethanol as a completely different combustion chemistry not a problem, but a solution. Has anyone heard of this theory? I just did some quick review of site and will go back for more. The site claims more scientist are leaning toward the Shindell theory, who also an employee of NASA. That CO2 not as bad as thought. Other fossil gases and VOCs combined with water vapor the culprit. That the phenomenon not an global atmospherical condition but pops up upon local or regional atmospheric conditions. Anyways, I don't know what its all about? Just very interesting to read about hydrous ethanol being the savior of Global Warming. Wow, would that catapult ethanol to the front. Anybody know something of this?
  12. Interested to read the EPA port injected engine efficiences as good or better than diesel. The engine would be less costly and have good low temperature start up. Something plaguing most 100% ethanol engines. Ricado Engineering also, utilizes variable EGR dilution for detonation control. Oxygenated fuel characteristics of ethanol can burn efficiently at high EGR dilutions. I'm guessing the chemical exact ratio of oxygen to fuel (stoichiometric ratio) is easy to attain with ethanol. Meaning half the cylinder burn chamber can have inert EGR and the ethanol fuel will burn efficient ratio to air. No lean burn ratios required. It's kind of like decreasing the cubic engine size for low power/pressure. You can't do that with unleaded. I wonder if the direct injection a better flex fuel engine as having better control in combustion chamber? Or if the direct injection just for ethanol to afford a wide range of fuel mixes? So in effect a EPA port injected engine of unleaded with direct injection of ethanol in combustion chamber? That would be flexible. Were sure going through a technology transformation of IC engines. Lol, the engine may just be a single cylinder that EPA alluded to. A steady state load and rpm engine much more efficient charging batteries. Best pumping efficiencies for most engines around the same, something around 1800 rpm. Ethanol future bright, heck diesel fuel has some growing concerns considering the EPA emissions regs. Saw a chart whereas 1% of price of unleaded because of refining cost. 17% of the price of diesel from refining cost. Probably because of the ultra low sulfur reg.
  13. Ya, thanks MUS for the link. Outlaw was the EPA 's (spark) engine a hybrid in VW? I was reading one report of such and was wondering if they were picking up addition efficiencies of hybid? Meaining they didn't separate the engine out? I'm finding most of the technology or R&D moving more into sparkless ignition- Ricado fuel injection technology- “The EBDI engine project is a great example because it turns the gasoline-ethanol equation upside down. It has the performance of a diesel at the cost of a gasoline engine, and runs on ethanol, gasoline, or a blend of both.” EBDI technology allows, for the first time, for a FlexFuel vehicle to use direct injection optimally for either gas, ethanol or a blend of both. In fact, in the Ricado press release announcing the EBDI technology breakthrough, the company comments that it is currently doing testing on a VW VR6 engine - essentially a naturally aspirated half of the Bentley W12. Ricardo states that its technology works perfectly with high-boost turbocharging to achieve the higher compression required to optimize ethanol combustion. The company also said that a EBDI VR6 could replace a larger V8 engine - hence our belief that the Bentley Supercar will make more than 630hp. GM and University Michigan- An HCCI engine ignites a mixture of fuel and air by compressing it in the cylinder. Unlike a spark ignition petrol or diesel engine, HCCI produces a low-temperature, flameless release of energy throughout the entire combustion chamber. All of the fuel in the chamber is burned simultaneously as instead of a single spark ignition point, the mix spontaneously ignites at several points at once. This produces power similar to today’s conventional petrol engines, but uses less fuel to do it. Leaner fuel air mixes burn well in direct injection combustion. Computer controls, nowadays, makes it easier to control sparkless ignition.
  14. The 16:1 optimum compression ratio for engine efficiency changes my thinking about typical diesel engine. The new generation flex ethanol engines utilizing MIT's high turbo charged direct injection seems to be future. Now, talk of sparkless ignition or direct injection ignition upon ethanol engines another bump in efficiency. Higher than normal unleaded compression ratios, turbo charging, and direct injection within the 16:1 ratio may be the best. These second generation flex fuel engines supposidly will replace some diesels. Also, these new engines lighter and smaller than current unleaded engines. Were talking of 30% improved mpg bringing E85 mileage above regular unleaded. I know the MIT team was injecting 100% ethanol for detonation control, stored in separate fuel tank, but to date have read only reports on fuel injection, variable valve timing, variable turbo, variable compression, etc for utilizing E85. Would just building a nonflex engine only to run on E85 be best?
  15. The ADM article interesting, a '92 test . Diesel costs in the chart at $1.05 per gallon....those were the days. One truck logged 325,000 miles on ethanol. The main problem was fuel injector clogging. Glow plugs had to be utilized more frequently. These were Detroit Diesels 9L set up for ethanol electronic controls and compression increased from 18:1 to 23:1. They mentioned while compression increase directly improves engine efficiency....the friction loss cancels out improvement over 16:1. So the ethanol engine was less efficient than diesel with higher compression. The study concluded with E95 diesel conversion easy, no technological problems foreseen, the only barrier would be economics. E95 utilized 5% gasoline to improve injector ignition, they also used "Lubritzol" as ethanol has less lubrication compared to diesel fuel. May this be not required nowadays as ultra low sulfur diesel fuel the same problem. I remember the advice of old diesel owners to mix a cup of vegetable oil with 20 gallon fill up. Vegetable oil very good lubrication.
  16. As I understand, direct injection ignition superior diesel efficiency. My best guess would be the latent heat of vaporization or phase change from liquid to gas absorbs combustion chamber heat. May it be a lower exhaust temperature as result? That plays into laws of Thermo. The heavy weight castings of diesel good for strength, rigidity, and dampening vibration a good thing when swinging heavy pistons for high compression. But, in general the lighter you can make your engine and achieve acceptable efficiencies a good thing. High Turbo charging seems to keep engines lighter for same hp. The ideal engine may exist already in those semi rigs with little tweaking. Whereas, the ideal ethanol engine within autos doesn't exist yet. So, would stimulating ethanol use in the existing diesel engine trucks and cars be the fastest, best path for ethanol? You know since they burn ethanol 30% more efficient from get go. So in effect existing supplies of ethanol can go 30% farther.
  17. Thumpin455, your posts am sure the majority viewpoint, yet I sometimes think we may better off directing ethanol to diesel engines? So-called flex-fuel engines use a mixture of fuels, the most common combination being around 15 percent gasoline and 85 percent ethanol. But these engines tend to pay a 30 percent efficiency penalty because they are optimized to use gasoline, says Rod Beazley, product group director for gasoline at the engineering-research firm Ricardo, based in Detroit. Therefore, even though commercial ethanol-fuel mixes such as E85 cost less than gas at the pump, it still works out cheaper to operate a regular gasoline engine, he says. From my layman's perspective of engine technology, ethanol suited to direct injection, higher compression ratios, turbo charging and earlier ignition timing. Also, valve timing can be advance for increasing temperatures and pressure. The fuel can operate at maximum efficiency under diesel conditions as compared to unleaded engines. Actually 30% more efficient. Now a diesel running high btu diesel fuel is hard competition, but diesel fuel now 20% to 25% premium prices helps. So, the diesel engine can get 30% more out of ethanol. Right. Are we wasting ethanol upon unleaded fuel engines? I think so. This being the case, low ethanol blends should be the priority of car fleet, maybe stopping at E30. After that blend much better to go E95 and exploit ethanol to the max. Diesel engines, also, need t be tweaked to increase ethanol efficiency, but they are well suited for the task. First the turbocharging (I think?) should be greatly increased. This always a winner for IC engines as your picking energy of exhaust gas and increasing efficiences of engine. Also, the big semis with those huge engines may be able to exploit engine temperatures with hydrous blends of ethanol. Some companies already experimenting trying to utilize a combined steam cycle power. Either as another power stroke, higher exhaust turbine efficiencies, or in combination of typical power stroke. Trucking companies always interested in saving cost of fuel and willing to invest (if payback good) to make it happen. Not currently, as no savings. But, were talking of investing in alternative fuels.....a better place is the big diesel engine. May we tax diesel fuel higher? Remove road tax on ethanol? May the legislatures think out of the box i.e. apply legislation to allow the micro breweries, to expand to local ethanol market. May they enjoy some tax incentive doing so? How about a tax free zone if Mirco Brewery forms a Cooperative with trucking company for closed loop supply of ethanol? May a clever politician implement a local trial "enterprise" zone to empower the private sector to flourish. To my thinking since the ethanol sector is developing best to decentralize and allow private sector with hard earned money and investments make most of the intelligent decision making.
  18. This diesel set up for E95. Scania is a bus manufacturer that converts diesels to run ethanol. VW bought them out recently. I don't think the company is particularly concerned or focused on efficient ethanol diesel engines, as mostly a requirement or angle to sell more buses and gain some PR. Scania’s compression-ignition (CI) ethanol engine is a modified 9-liter diesel with a few modifications. Scania raised the compression ratio from 18:1 to 28:1, added larger fuel injection nozzles, and altered the injection timing. The fuel system also needs different gaskets and filters, and a larger fuel tank since the engine burns 65% to 70% more ethanol than diesel. The thermal efficiency of the engine is comparable to a diesel, 43% compared to 44%. So these buses burn 1.5x more fuel if ethanol as compared to diesel.
  19. Swedish tuner BSR has developed a new conversion kit for diesel engines that allow the oil-burners to run on ethanol fuels generated from plant crops. Engineers used a Saab 9-3 TDI for the initial trial and will be presenting the car at the Malmö Motor Show in Sweden this week. The diesel engine in the Saab is now fully capable of running on E95 ethanol-blended fuel and is said to offer improved fuel consumption, better performance and lower exhaust emissions than the standard model. Engineers needed to modify the combustion chamber, fuel system and engine software to allow it to run on ethanol. The end result is a peak output of 195hp and 410Nm of torque but with a fuel-consumption rating of just 5L/100km (47mpg). The car also benefits from 95% lower CO2 emissions, minimal dangerous hydrocarbons and nitric oxide exhaust emissions and almost no particle emissions. Diesel engines can also run on renewable biodiesel but performance is subpar to diesel vehicles running on ethanol. At the end of the day, adding ethanol to a diesel engine actually improves performance of the vehicle while also reducing emissions and fuel-economy.
  20. Why so little known in U.S. about this fuel? I understand E-95 is alternative diesel fuel made up of ethanol and gasoline. So my question, is this fuel o.k. to burn in normal diesel engine? I read reports of testing ethanol in diesel buses in Europe. European Scantia (sp) company actually specializing in optimizing diesel engines for ethanol. I think E-95 ethanol. Also, read reports of testing ethanol a few years back on heavy road equipment. They ran these engines for life span and tore apart for inspections. Ethanol fuel rated an excellent fuel, no difference in engine wear. Fuel usage did go up 30%. If this is correct wouldn't those over the road semi's love to have an alternative fuel? They spend so much money yearly on fuel, I would think these companies would be interested in investing with local farmers for lower cost fuel. They have massive fuel tanks already. Also, these companies would be more willing to spend money for conversion. Remember T-Boones plan to convert these trucks. They consume something like 30% of nations fuel. As I understand ethanol.....it's best utilized as a diesel, high compression fuel. Would ethanol be better served serving this market? Commercial carriers have deeper pockets and able to do testing, development, investing in fuel supply, and not energized by politics, but profits. Would providing some tax relief to these companies be the best development path for this fuel source? Also, the regulation industry is more lenient within commercial applications, i.e. no UL certification required. As usual the self propagated regulation industry will destroy innovation. They do this as falsely thinking their intellect is above all, whereas history a better Judge of safety. Lol, think about proposing to these regulators you would like to plumb up an explosive poisonous gas for homeowners to light up a flame to cook food or heat the house. No way. How about proposing to these regulators of building a self directed projectile down pathways with oncoming projectiles with no gov't controls of speed and direction just merely relying on operator talent to prevent killing citizens.
  21. Yesterday stopped at a E-85 listed gas station and asked about the fuel. Some high school looking clerk said they would never sell E85 as it's bad fuel. Well, why bother arguing as he had a mindset. The gas station is modern with car wash. The original owner sold out probably by land contract to someone who changed to independant and put in E85. Guess this guy defaulted and the owner got the station back. My daughter said the clerks were out looking for a job the very day. They said the owner just came in and told them to go. The owner put his relatives in charge and changed back to Shell which they claim sell no stinking E85. Maybe the problem is political. Meaning all the alternative fuel stuff got bunched up in Drill baby Drill debate? That ethanol, solar, wind, bio diesel, geo thermal, etc all got bunched up as alternative energy. These energy streams are so different it's just an injustice to put them all together. Guess some think of ethanol as Prius hybrid solutions intertwined with solar panels or agaist drilling. Meaning many think bad of ethanol, because it got caught up with being agaist national exploration and development of homeland energy, instead of thinking better of ethanol for decreasing oil imports. So, ethanol, first being propagated by Bush is held to 2rd cousin status of left and yet because of label of alternative energy is held to 2rd cousin status by Right.
  22. Mexico is trying to attract investors for Agave ethanol production. The succulent plant has a lot going for it. It thrives in hot sunny dry areas like SW U.S. and much of Mexico. Looks like a common giant Burn plant or aloe. It takes six years to fully grow, but still Agave can yield an impressive 2,000 gallons of distilled ethanol per acre each year annually. Add cellulosic ethanol from agave and were talking of 6 to 9 times this yield per acre. Wow...the plant has 2-3x sugar content as compared to sugar cane. Its currently been farmed for centuries in Mexico and already has 100 commercial co-products anything from the healthy sugar substitute Agave Nectar many health food stores stock to agave rope and fabric from the cellulose. The plant hardly need irrigation and pulls it's own fertilizer (nitrogen) from the air. Also, biologically the plant a strong CO2 converter and absorbs another more toxic green house gas from root system. Hardly any competition from weeds or bugs. A R&D company is already tweaking the genetics of plant for maximum production and has increased the plants typical 600# gigantic size to one ton. Oh, the plant already in production upon farmland in Mexico with knowledge base on farming practices including commercial equipment for harvesting and planting. This R& D company investigating Agave believes petro chemical plants will soon sprout all through desert areas or world....some of the poorest nations on earth to become the new OPEC. Agave fixes nitrogen in the soil and actually improves the soil quality where it is grown. 95% of the Agavacea family calls Mexico home and 50% of the country is ideally suited for agave cultivation. Dry, arid, and steep terrain typically have fewer economic opportunities and greater poverty. Ethanol from agave would open up new markets in marginalized lands. Agave does not require much water for cultivation, making it favorable over many of the alternatives because it does not need to be irrigated. Because agave doesn’t need agrochemicals, it also helps protect water quality. Now, I beleive corn and sorghum grain will always be an excellent feedstock as so storable and adaptable. It's a natural buffer to low corn prices and high energy cost easily produced locally with little transportation cost. Agave, also can be grown in the SW of U.S. and the storable sugar and cellulose within the plant itself would lend itself to continuous supply of feed stock to ethanol plant. Heck, if ethanol prices low just let the plant grow.
  23. The reporting and technology of ethanol, has it, that water being a bad component. I've read many an article of ensuring the quality of ethanol as removing the last miniscule water molecule. Also, the reporting and posting of the notion ethanol attracts moisture, also a horrible fuel because we all know water is bad, fouling out engines. This the common postings of marine engines owners concerns. Then, read from Renergie post of purposely leaving water in gasoline ethanol mixes a good thing. That IC engines have actual ran on up to 30% water and ethanol mix. Then, remembered back to purposely putting alcohol in gas tank during winter a good practice for purging unwanted water out of tank to prevent engine fouling and freeze up. What's going on here? Well, I've did some homework and believe Renergie is on right path. Also, the fuel characteristics the detractors most often complain about, within reality a positive and makes for a better fuel. The ability to chemically mix with water is good. It's also good for marine engines. It's good environmentally upon water for fuel spills. It's good to purge marine engines of water and burn water out of system. It's best to have E100 fuel for marine. Ethanol not the problem but the solution.
  24. Thanks for the welcome! Ya, it's a threat to Union to go chap 11, alright. The cost of managing a highly structured Union Contract enterprise is high. Benefits, wages, healthcare costs through the roof as well as retiree costs. I'm a Landlord here in Michigan and have had several tenants ex-GM employees who successfully sued company for back disabilities. As I understand the easiest lawsuit disability to win. Also, Lawyers advertise on this GM expertise. Employees laugh at this early retirement ploy. I have worked within management during the trendy Quality Circle approach to improve labor relations cira Carter years within two UAW shops and another not so powerful Union shop. It seems to be the begining of the end for business once the labor votes Union. The mentality for Union and Management just polluted with excuses to acheive little, each blaming the other. The cruel joke is the benefits and income just to good for bitter employees to quit. A catch 22. Only the state and Federal government contract requirements industries will ensure labor Union business as usual. Not the International business competition.
  25. It's an enigma for GM access to easy money hooked to Union Labor as going b.k. would remedy the problem. So, don't think they will be to interested in bailing out when so much easy money at hand. They will play D.C. politics for awhile. Am sure their looking at offloading most operations to foreign soil as their foreign competitors haven't suffered much with foreign addresses. Not an advantage to have Corporate on U.S. soil anymore, increasingly it's an disadvantage. Just put up an assembly plant to hire some nut runners. Many countries allow more freedom for Corporate control of business. The U.S. has raced to European Socialism solutions. Anyways many U.S. citizens hate the company and lol, mostly from the left. Go figure as one of the largest employers of Union labor? The competition fears GM and mostly upon the fair trade of International competition and opportunities. They fear GM more going to chapt 11 and emerging with the same advantages as they enjoy.
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