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Just when you think you've got it nailed...

 

I had been using Redline's 2-stroke Allsport oil for premixing with E85.  That had worked for a while...  then while messing around today I noticed that the oil turns to goo and partially separates from the E85.  :mad:  It's weird though because it seems to stay mixed in the tank and in the "gas" can.  Maybe the fuel evaporates and leaves the oil behind?

 

The conventional stuff does the same thing, just quicker.

 

Redline's 2-stroke alcohol premix is no longer available.

 

Who knows of a 2 stroke oil that will actually mix with E85 and stay mixed?  The only one I can think of...

 

http://www.klotzlube.com/proddetail.asp?prod=BC-175_Pint&cat=4

 

Edit:  Anyway, I'm going to do a test.  I'll put some E85 and Redline 2-stroke allsport oil in a glass container, cover it, and let it sit for a while.  I'll post results later.

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I know it is a no-no from a fire safety viewpoint to store the 2 cycle mix in glass--but this is what we did on the farm and I still do. I make sure they are gallon jugs with a finger hole or 1/2 gallon with the side indent for fingers to prevent dropping the works on the floor when shaking and handling. Got in this habit because in the sixties and early seventies a lot of the 2 stroke oils would settle out of gasoline- you could see things were much darker at the bottom.

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Ok about 1/2 of the oil is separated out in a distinct layer on the bottom.  The rest of the fuel is still red, although a lighter shade.  So I think one of two things is happening:

 

1. Some additive / ingredient of the oil is incompatible with ethanol and falls out of suspension, leaving the rest behind.

 

-or-

 

2. There's a limit to how much oil can be mixed with a given volume of E85, and the excess falls out of suspension.

 

Any ideas?

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About 1/4" oil on the bottom of a quart mason jar with the rest filled with E85.  Didn't measure it.

 

Normally I mix it about 40:1 though.

 

The stuff I mixed up is probably closer to 20:1.

 

I intentionally mixed it up with a lot of oil to see if the fuel would saturate with oil.  Apparently it has.

 

Now I need to see just how much oil is too much.

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Couple of quick thoughts:

 

I'd only mix the oil in the ratio you intend to use it.  If you had 1/4" in a mason jar, you'd need ~10 inches of E85 on top of that to make about a 40:1 ratio.  Of course a higher mix ratio will be more likely to drop out or do other weird stuff.

 

Anything special with the temperature or humidity when you noticed the separation?

 

Likewise, are you sure this 'goo' was the oil separating?  My handy-dandy tape measure shows a mason jar about 5" tall to the neck, so even if ALL the oil in a 40:1 mix dropped out, there would barely be 1/8" film covering the bottom of the jar.  A gallon of 40:1 premix is just over 3 ounces of oil - barely enough to make a thin film on the bottom of most gas jugs.

 

One thing that might work is leaving the 'goo' exposed to air for a few days and see if you essentially get the oil back.  If that is the case, then you've got the oil.  If it appears to turn into something else, maybe it is part of the additive package - emulsifier?  corrosion inhibitor?

 

Also, seemed like someone mentioned a 2-stroke oil made for E85 on here one time?  Did that ever go into production?

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  This sounds alot like what happens in the biodiesel fuel process, where glycerin is part of what drops out of the mixture. In the biodiesel process the ratio is more like 4 parts oil to 1 part (m)ethanol, and some nasty gases are also part of the byproducts.  Any hint of ammonia gas or other noxious compounds ??

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I was wondering if the oil/gas bond was strong enough that it stripped the gasoline off the E85. If this were the case though- one could do a phase separation test on the lighter color material any see if the alcohol content is stronger there than original- problem is that the oil in it may mess with the results. While alcohol is denser than gas and goes to the bottom- I do not know the density of the gas/oil mix so in theory it could go to the bottom instead. While I doubt the above is the issue- anything is possible I suppose. More likely the oil is like too much sugar in cold tea.

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