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Whoa! Hydrous ethanol (Everclear) didn't separate from E85 or E10!

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(repost from E85forum concerning hydrous ethanol blending.)

 

<Spock>

 

Fascinating...

 

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NONE of these mixtures separated. I was very, very surprised. Test tubes don't lie. We'll see if they hold together after a night in the freezer, but 70 degree ambient temps look good..

 

20% E85 and 80% Everclear

50% E85 and 50% Everclear

20% E10 and 80% Everclear

50% E10 and 50% Everclear

 

Y'know guys, I don't mind doing these quick and dirty tests and posting the results. Is it possible that one day I'm going to regret finding out all this stuff? I don't WANT to know federal or corporate secrets or anything like that.

 

How this kind of work reverberates in the community is undeniably powerful and I think it's just because of the impact of the internet on people who read. It's a power I've grown to fear withthis science because of the responsibilities involved. Who's to say someone tried this and isn't depending on keeping the specific results quiet? I feel like this stuff changes the world in a very short amount of time.

 

When I found Oxytane pushes back the water separation barrier and published it, within a month there were other reports of additives doing the same thing. That was AFTER we cracked the memorandum 1A issue using factory parts. Do you see how I'm getting nervous about finding all of this stuff out? Stepping on billion dollar toes would make me a marked man.

 

I have to start being more careful about what I say, that's partially why I took my site down to tweak some things further. Who's to say I didn't thrash someone's billion dollar plan that I don't even know about? Nothing's a secret once it is published, especially on the internet.

 

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Hummm...?  Have you done the math on those mixtures?  It's pretty early in the morning, so don't put too much stock in my numbers - but for your mixes, I get the following: (this is assuming the EXX mixtures are anhydrous and the Everclear is 190 proof - 95% EtOH, 5% water)

 

Numbers are in weight percent of Gas, Water, EtOH

 

 

20% E85 and 80% Everclear    =  3, 5, 92

50% E85 and 50% Everclear    =  7, 3, 90

20% E10 and 80% Everclear    =  17, 5, 78

50% E10 and 50% Everclear    =  43, 3, 54

 

 

So looking at a chart of EtOH / water / gasoline stability, all of these mixes appear to be well in the stable portion of the chart.  The closest to 'the edge' appears to be the last one which falls down on  one of the stability 'legs', but it is still in the stable portion.  If someone has a chart, feel free to post it, I can't link to any image hosts from work, but could post it later.

 

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I left it in the freezer overnight. E10 formed a frozen boundary layer, but the E85 and hydrous ethanol did not. For a quick and dirty test, I think it was interesting to see. If I drop some tap water in it, then it separates.

 

I'm going to try E85, Everclear, and Oxytane and see how the Briggs likes it.

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Ever hear about Aquanol?

http://domesticfuel.com/2007/02/27/filling-up-on-aquanol/

 

 

It looks fascinating...65% ethanol and 35% water!  You need special spark plugs (or a modified diesel) to burn it.

 

I remember reading a seperate article about the "Smart Plugs" that eliminated traditional spark plugs, and they intrigued me.  It was in reading about them that I first heard about Aquanol, and I'm really curious as to how it works. 

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Ever hear about Aquanol?

http://domesticfuel.com/2007/02/27/filling-up-on-aquanol/

 

 

It looks fascinating...65% ethanol and 35% water!  You need special spark plugs (or a modified diesel) to burn it.

 

I remember reading a seperate article about the "Smart Plugs" that eliminated traditional spark plugs, and they intrigued me.  It was in reading about them that I first heard about Aquanol, and I'm really curious as to how it works. 

 

Is fascinating.. the whole idea of using water is just so contrary to everything we thought we knew

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It looks fascinating...65% ethanol and 35% water!

 

It is just a different way of running water injection. The problem is you get the water all the time instead of only when you need it as you do with a properly setup WI system.

 

In WWII aircraft ADI systems (what the aircraft industry calls water injection) they ran .5 lb of injectant to each 1 lb of fuel) that works out to a 33% mixture of injectant to gasoline. To prevent freezing at altitude they ran a 50/50 mix of water and methanol  but with out the constraint of freezing control they could have run straight water at about the same ratios.

 

The advantage of WI is you only get the additional water when the engine is under load so you are not wasting energy vaporizing water when you don't want or need the extra cooling.

 

You also do not need to run magic spark plugs with WI, and with a multistage or proportional WI system you can tailor the additional water supply to just what the engine wants and needs.

 

In effect his system is like running the same mixture as WWII aircraft under boost at all times, only substituting ethanol for the gasoline and methanol component.

 

Under high load and very lean mixtures you can make more power on WI than you can on any mixture of gasoline and water injection at rich mixtures. I am talking under load fuel air mixtures on gasoline near 20:1 AFR. These would be instantly fatal to an engine without the WI.

 

I think there is potential for a similar setup on E85 with the proper setup to get excellent fuel mileage. The bad news is using such a very lean max power mixture on WI is the injection system must be absolutely fail safe or cut back very quickly to normal mixtures if problems arise. If the WI fails or you will melt the pistons, and burn the heads of the exhaust valves in a heart beat at these very lean mixtures.

 

Larry

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