Topic: Why not more ethanol in Hawaii?

[HuskerFlex]

I was thinking the other day, and was wondering why there is not a large scale sugar-ethanol style system in place in the 50th state, with a well established, and nearly universal e85 network of stations?

they have the soil, the climate, and due to their isolation in the middle of the ocean, they have VERY high fuel costs.  Producing local fuel would help spur the local economy, keeping more $ on the island and send less to the mainland, not to mention the middle east...

Why has this not taken root there?

[fleebut]

There is a conundrum afoot with cellulosic ethanol of biomass. Correct me if wrong, but to the best of my knowledge, this fuel is more expensive than corn per gallon. Most  projections of 2rd and 3rd generation fuel produced at $2/gallon and another $2/gallon added by the time its sold at the pump.

You see making fuel for automotive use is less efficient process than burning fuel stock for heat. However, producing quality fuel for auto engines, that is non-polluting, is a valuable complex job. Think of ethanol as a bio green solar liquid battery. It’s an attractive comparatively low cost transportation fuel concentrating much power for the weight. It does take a complex engine to process the power.

So, what am I getting at? The Brazilians might have the better idea? Burn cellulose energy for making the ethanol processing plant the most efficient operation overall. Burning cellulose upon gasification process for plant heat and electric needs. Utilize the cogeneration of the simple gas turbine for power and heat. This is an industrial common practice nowadays. Utilize the thin stillage and bottoms for food or feed as before, but become energy independent with those corn cobs by gasification, hot air turbine generator, and steam boiler cogen. Utilize biomass first upon the most efficient use and corn for its most efficient use. Corn ethanol with it multi product stream more efficient than sugar cane. Bio-digestors, scrubbers and ability to produce pipe line quality natural gas another opportunity for corn ethanol as well as WDG feed lots.   

[HuskerFlex]

exactly... on an island with no local coal or natural gas reserves to power a traditional ethanol plant... a sugar-ethanol plant uses the waste from the sugar pressing...  usually they actually produce surplus electristy, which is sold into the local power grid as well.

[cessna]

When I toured that plant in Brazil, I was amazed at how self contained it was. It was out in the middle of nowhere and the electric lines to the place were about like a small farm place around here. Burning the bagasse to make steam and generate electricity did the trick.

[HuskerFlex]

I had read that the sugar industry there is dying, and that the last sugar mill is about to close shop.  Producing crops for multimillion dollar losses several years in a row (drought and increased foreign competition in the US...) tends to cause any industry to die.

I was just wondering why one of these idled/abandoned sugar mills could not be purchased up for a song, and converted into a Brazilian styled bagasse (pulp left after pressing) powered ethanol distillery!  Seems like an excellent deal.  You would think that the state of Hawaii would be all over this with incentives and guarantees.  Sometimes (more often then not) logic and government policy don't seem to match up.

[SacramentoE-85]

I noticed that also, and rented an FFV Sebring (convertible of course--Maui in August).  Drove by many sugar cane fields, burning gasoline on my way.   

It may be that the car rental company does have their own supply of E85 somehow, and charges $5.00 per gallon to fill up on cheap E85, for those who don't refill before returning.  I wouldn't blink an eye at the likelihood.

[mpall85]

I was on vacation in Hawaii two years ago and noticed that more than half of the cars on the car rental lot were flex fuel.  I asked the attendant if there was and E85 pumps available for these cars and, of course, he said there were none on the island (Hawaii).  It's got to be a scam for the car rental company to claim a certain percentage of their fleet was E85 compatible.

[SacramentoE-85]

More prior discussion on Hawaii and ethanol:

http://e85vehicles.com/e85/index.php/topic,3510.msg23335.html#msg23335

[cessna]

I posted this back in Feb. in another thread. Evidently the people of Hawaii don't think green.

Thread drift but my cousin just got back from Hawaii. He said gas was $3.77 a gal and big signs saying no ethanol. Sugarcane is just about gone over there and when the subsidy goes it's over. Looks like we have some very ignorant people in Hawaii when they could be making their own fuel and don't.

My cousin talked to a guy from Minnesota that spends the winter in Hawaii pumping gas and found this out also. They have three very old monster diesel powered electric generators that are belching black smoke. They're happy with that but wave action and wind turbine electricity is a big no-no. I think this was on Maui.

[Corey872]

That is a good point.  I don't know how the economics work out, though it would seem they would have an abundance of sugar cane. Surprisingly, there is a wiki entry on it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethanol_fuel_in_Hawaii