Topic: Sources for pure denatured ethanol (E98) for tuning

[1outlaw]

While most folks on this website are running FFVs, add-on kits, or light mods that work great with variable ethanol %-- some performance EFI and especially carburated performance guys often need drums of E98 to tune with in the winter/spring/fall when E85 is less than 85% ethanol. The purpose of this thread is to list such sources as a resource for the performance folks- feel free to add more as you become aware of them.

I will start with a few that I am aware of and a link to the discussion where found in addition to the supplier's web address;

Michigan;
Discussion found at; http://raceone85.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=493
Seller's website; http://www.fairgroveoil.com/e98.html

SE Wisconsin;
Discussion found at; http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/e85-technical-forum/291162-e98-power.html
Seller's website; http://schmidtsgasngo.com/index.html

North Carolina; Shelby NC. Thomas Petroleum
Seller's website; http://www.thomaspetroleum.com/index.html

Missouri; Jefferson City, Mark Sullens
Seller's website; http://marksullense85.proboards.com/index.cgi

Ohio-- not verified as stocking- no seller's web address;
Discussion found at;
http://www.e85performance.net/forums/showthread.php?t=617

N. Ill-- expensive race version of E85- no E98
Seller's website; http://www.rockettbrand.com/index.html  ----look for the "112" product

[Obormot]

if 2T oil will be used, oil+gas mix can be used in 2T engines :-)

maybe we will need to add more pure gasoline to oil+gas mix for prorer concentration.

[1outlaw]

Then what would you do with the oil/gas mix? Distill the gas out of the oil? -- I suppose that would take away the need to dehydrate the ethanol.

[Obormot]

1outlaw, maybe motor oil can be used for split ethanol and gasoline?

oil mixes with gasoline and do not mixes with ethanol... 

espassially in cold conditions.

[Thumpin455]

I will build you a still if you want to get your own zeolite. Really though, hydrous ethanol works pretty good for a fuel. Thanks for the links, I might pick up a barrel or two for testing. Although this year the fuel project is going to grow quite a bit.

[1outlaw]

maybe it will be easier to split gasoline and ethanol from E85?

One cannot distill it out since the ethanol sits right in the mid-range of the gas distillation range. The only way I know to separate it is to first phase separate it with a huge amount of water, then re-distill the water/ethanol mix to hydrous ethanol E100 spec (94-95% water), then dehydrate that with a zeolite. This would require equipment and Zeolite which few would have.

Please post up known E98 drum lot sellers no matter where they are- this is of interest to some performance folks all over the globe. Please do not list industrial alcohols or chem warehouse "denatured ethanol" sellers because they are not likely selling fuel grade material with natural gasoline or gasoline as the denaturant and also lack corrosion inhibitor.

[1outlaw]

Is it possible to buy denatured ethanol straight from the plant?  There's a plant up in Shell Rock.

http://www.hawkrenew.com/aspx/shellrock.aspx

E98 fuel grade ethanol is all over the country in massive quanities- the problem getting it is that it is in facilities that do not lend themselves to measuring out and filling a drum. It is also generally owned by brokers and oil companies that have little interest in small lot sales. Even in an ethanol plant it is not easy to access the product for easy drumming. In their tank farm the only tap is often the quality control/lab tap which is too near the floor to even think about doing a drum. In the plant itself the best tap is again the lab/quality control tap coming off of the molecular sieve for annydrous ethanol 200 proof. Problem here at the mole sieve is 3 fold- 1) this is a flowing, untested dynamic product which only give the lab a window of quality flowing by- moistures vary from very dry (2/10 of 1 % moisture) to approx 1.5% moisture--so lab must test this drum , 2) at this tap it lacks corrosion inhibitor so it must be added in via hand measurement of very tiny quanities, 3) the barrel being filled must be hand poisoned with gas to keep it legal and the BATF happy. Because of these issues it is generally better to pull the drum lot from the tank farm tap or let the E98 get loaded onto a friendly jobber's semi to go to his tank farm where he might have a drum filling capability (rare case). Nearly everywhere E98 is handled it is piped via 4" pipe flowing 450 gal/minute and interlocked with a Sculley overfill device that prevents drum friendly fillling. Furthermore most ethanol plants only sell to what is called an "IRS oil terminal" --meaning that the E98 is sold tax free to the oil company who is then responsible to add the tax, gain the credit, and pay the IRS and state. Since that is the case many ethanol plants will not have the tax license or knowledge of how to collect the tax at retail, handle an off-road exemption, and pay the taxing agencies.

That is why while E98 is everywhere- there "is not a drop to drink" for your racecar in the E98 variety. 

[cessna]

 

Is it possible to buy denatured ethanol straight from the plant?

I think it depends on the plant and what you're going to use it for. I asked about getting some from a local plant if I modified my airplane engine to use it and the boss said he'd sell me some. He'd also only load a real fuel truck also. I used to buy on road biodiesel at a plant I invested in until the RIN thing came into being and they quit selling onroad unless I had a RIN---just off road and they dumped some dye in my 55 gallon drum.

[rusty70f100]

Is it possible to buy denatured ethanol straight from the plant?  There's a plant up in Shell Rock.

http://www.hawkrenew.com/aspx/shellrock.aspx

[Obormot]

maybe it will be easier to split gasoline and ethanol from E85?