Topic: So should I?? (Run a Taylor Vacumn Engine on E85)

[1outlaw]

I have had this hit and miss engine sitting in my shed for years- It runs beautifully except the gas always goes bad in the tank. Problem is that it has a vented tank and it is very hard to drain fuel out of it- -which is what should always be done with gas or E85. This old girl could provide vacumn for milking cows or as stationary power for things like pumping water. I also have the pump jack (to pump water) and an air compressor (but with a broken crank) to match. I need to find a 4"x 20' canvas drive belt to use the accessories and have to study the vacumn side to pipe it up. She was on our farm and mostly pumped water back in the 20's thru the 40's. The way this engine creates vacumn is via the piston inside the main piston. Main piston is a little smaller than a gallon paint can. While only rated 2 hp- all engines of that era put out far more since all maker underated them to avoid the "horsepower tax" of the time (gas guzzler tax ). --Actually she uses very little fuel even if run all day, the govt just needed to pay for WW1 in 1917 when she was made and an HP tax was it. There were a lot of normal hit and miss engines at the time- clear up thru a massive 15 hp that could run a sawmill. This one is unique because of it's ability to produce a vacumn directly without a separate vacumn pump needed by dairymen.

Here is what what a Taylor Vacumn Engine looks like;

http://www.oldengine.org/members/inzero/

[fleebut]

May this be a hybrid? Utilize the much more efficient as compared to batteries...inertia. Also, notice the "modern" cylinder deactivation technology. Now the weight problem?

[1outlaw]

I am not actually worried at all about cylinder lubrication on my Taylor. They only turn over 900 rpm max and only fire when the flywheels start to slow. Normal firing is only 1 "lick" in about every 10-12 rounds, even less w/o load, or just a bit more if under high load. With the top glass cylinder oiler I can control the amount she receives very easily. I also likely will not have to mess with the carb's jet as there is a lot of screw adjustment available. This engine may have even been set up to run alcohol for all I know. I will need to see if any of the carb parts are brass (ok) or if they are bronze (not so good) -- anyone know how to tell the difference?
The other issue could be tank construction since it appears to have been lead soldered. Starting might indeed be a challenge- this is the current challenge when the gas gets old and loses it's vapor pressure thru the open tank vent. Like I said- I need to study how I can drain the tank when I am done playing so as not to either let the gas go sour or the E85 to gain moisture. I just pull it out once a year and light her off to make noise in the neighborhood-- though it would be fun to take it to some of the local summer "hit and miss" shows nearby (you can bet it would have an Renew E85 sign on it  ). Mine is not all painted and pretty like the one in the link. Mine has a lot of nice patina, in original paint, and is sitting on the original heavy 4 steel wheel steerable cart. If I can't find a decent belt and a way to "pin the crank" in the old air compressor- I may have to get the vacumn side up and running plus find a milking machine and a "happy milk cow", find an old hand water pump to go with my pump jack, OR go find an old "White Mountain" hand crank ice cream maker, put a pulley on it, and make ice cream for show. Methinks the last is the best solution

Darn fool thing weighs about 200 lbs with the cart.

[rusty70f100]

I appreciate that you came up with some more suggestions, but I remain skeptical.  The Redline stuff I mentioned was supposed to mix.  It did not.  I think methanol is different than ethanol, which is different than retail pump E85, in terms of oil mixing.  The only way to see what works, in my opinion, is to actually try it.

[Obormot]

Castrol M Castor Based Lubricant
Competition oil. Superior Castor based engine oil often used in historic vehicle racing where methanol fuel is used.



Motul Micro 2T
2-Stroke oil for model planes,boats,cars. Can be mixed with methanol, nitromethane or ether. Also for top feul dragsters for top end engine lubrication



2t Silkolene Pro Kr-2
Price Range:$14.39 — $15.17 Average Price:$14.78 —— A Castor/ester synthetic blend, 2-stroke Kart Racing engine oil. Blended formulation combines the natural high film strength of Castor while reducing the normal lacquer build up associated with it. Suitable for premixing with all gasoline, alcohol and methanol fuels. KR-2 cannot be mixed with any other types of oils. SAE Rating 30 wt.



or you can use natural castor oil.

[rusty70f100]

I had major problems with 2-stroke oil in E85.  Regular conventional 2-stroke oil will eventually separate and leave goo on the bottom of the gas tank, plugging things up.  Redline 2-stroke Allsport oil, while better than conventional 2-stroke oil, will partially separate.  It goes in red, but there's a small amount of very thick tan colored goo that forms on the bottom of the tank, also eventually plugging things up.  Redline used to make a 2-stroke alcohol premix.  But they don't make that any more. 

The only thing I've found that works is Klotz Benol.  But I've heard that has problems under freezing.

If anyone knows of something that works and won't separate, please speak up.  I am interested in trying biodiesel, but where can I obtain B100?

[cessna]

 

Though you would be looking to mix that with ethanol - so that goes back to the issues of finding a good two stroke oil which won't separate.

BIODIESEL

[Corey872]

Interesting read.  I've always been fascinated by old technology, whether it's hit-n-miss engines, vacuum tubes and electronics, steam, etc.

I suppose you could run the engine on E85 - with all the standard caveats - making sure all the soft parts can handle the alcohol.

If you are actually going to use this as a workhorse, there might be a couple more things to consider...  I doubt the compression was very high to begin with.  Worn rings, cylinder, etc probably haven't made it higher over the years.  Starting might be a little harder - especially in cold weather.

The issue of power piston lubrication was brought up - and the modern solution seems to be using two stroke oil, which should work fine.  Though you would be looking to mix that with ethanol - so that goes back to the issues of finding a good two stroke oil which won't separate.

 

[Dan M]

Here is what what a Taylor Vacumn Engine looks like;

http://www.oldengine.org/members/inzero/

Outlaw really enjoyed reading that guys "journey" getting the old engine up and running .. very cool following him as he is learning more about the engine and finding solutions and parts

[James48843]

Why did they call these engines donkey engines? Thats the slang?

Donkey was the work animal in much of the 19th century and early 20th century. They were the pack animals, the work animals in mines, in building roadways, in agriculture, etc.  Those who could not afford horses to plow with used donkeys.   Donkeys were used in logging, to drag timber out of the woods.  Etc. Etc.   

On sailing ships in the 19th century, the first "Donkey Engines" were small engines that were used to load and unload cargo, replacing the donkey of the day in lifting with ropes. These were external combustion engines (steam engines), and used a rope over a yardarm to lift out the cargo.

The invention of the small external combustion engine, and then internal combustion engines, greatly replaced these animals around the farm, ships,  and around small business. You didn't have to feed an engine anything except gasoline, and you didn't have to clean up after them.  You could drag logs out of the woods on a rope, instead of with a Donkey.

Here's one that replaced donkeys in Gold Mining:
http://www.skagitriverjournal.com/S-W/Business/Post1900/SS/SSAlaskaDonkey1913.jpg

"Steam Donkeys" were engines built in the woods to drag logs out of the forest:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steam_donkey

[fleebut]

Cast iron is wonderful for stationary engines. Those engines had long efficient strokes and operated low rpm. High torque at a cost of weight. Yes, efficient, but to expensive a design for today. Ship engines looked some  what like this. The large diameter piston has better energy for the friction robbing surfaces. Slow rpm engines more efficient for pumping air. Why did they call these engines donkey engines? Thats the slang?

[James48843]

Nice-  I love old engines.