Topic: New E85 Station in Lebanon PA

[kkreider13]

I found a new station that carries E85.  I spoke to an employee and he told me they have had it for a couple months now, I just didn't realize it being away at college.


Carpenter's Service
25th & W. Cumberland St.
Lebanon, PA 17046
717-273-4771


They are a full service station that has their employee's come out and pump the gas for you.  It's basically for the elderly that don't want to get out of their cars.  But because of that they have a gas price of 2.65 or something ridiculous when gas has been 1.59 around the Lebanon area.  Their E85 price was 1.99. 

So I'm not sure what you want me to report for the gas price when I report their prices.  Should I use their inflated gas price or what the price is at in the area?

[DragonWhip]

If state history is taught there, people might remember what happened the last time they were a alcohol producing colony. George Washington instituted the first draft to raise an army to kill over 300 Pa. farmers because they were taking market share away from the biggest alcohol producer...... George Washington himself BTW they called it " The Whiskey Rebellion ". Later

[1outlaw]

The station in Lebanon which all this discussion started from has a sign out that says E85 now available here. So I don't think it's a case where they don't want to sell it.  I guess just because they are a full service station and pump your gas for you that they charge extra for that service (Here in PA we pump our own gas typically, I'm not sure how many states are like New Jersey where it's against the law to pump your own gas).  Is there a way to convince the owner to put the price below the gas price and they will sell a lot more of it.  Also people just don't know it's out there.







The other thing that puzzles me here in Central Pa is the wide range of E85 prices.  There can't be that many suppliers of ethanol, I only know of one and that is Worley & Obetz out of Lancaster and surrouding areas.  But even in Lancaster one station 1.36 and the other is 2.29.  They have to be getting it from the same supplier, why the huge difference?  Same thing up here in State College where I'm at school, here in State College it's 1.31 as of today and in Milroy about 30 minutes away it's usually close to the gas price which is 1.85 right now.  Why can one station offer it so much lower than the other?

It is a young market with a lack of solid competiton !

[kkreider13]

The station in Lebanon which all this discussion started from has a sign out that says E85 now available here. So I don't think it's a case where they don't want to sell it.  I guess just because they are a full service station and pump your gas for you that they charge extra for that service (Here in PA we pump our own gas typically, I'm not sure how many states are like New Jersey where it's against the law to pump your own gas).  Is there a way to convince the owner to put the price below the gas price and they will sell a lot more of it.  Also people just don't know it's out there.

The other thing that puzzles me here in Central Pa is the wide range of E85 prices.  There can't be that many suppliers of ethanol, I only know of one and that is Worley & Obetz out of Lancaster and surrouding areas.  But even in Lancaster one station 1.36 and the other is 2.29.  They have to be getting it from the same supplier, why the huge difference?  Same thing up here in State College where I'm at school, here in State College it's 1.31 as of today and in Milroy about 30 minutes away it's usually close to the gas price which is 1.85 right now.  Why can one station offer it so much lower than the other?

[Billyk]

I need to give this some thought..

357 has good point but on the otherside of that is ...at those prices no one is using the Station so it really isn't a reflection of what prices are in the area.
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Ideas ..suggestions keep them coming ...

I'm driving a flex-fuel 2003 Ford Taurus, which I got "pre-owned" in 2004. Since getting it, I've tracked fuel mileage by the type of fuel purchased. Early on, I filled up exclusively with E85 for a while, and regular gas with E10, and regular gas without any ethanol, to establish fuel mileage based on the type of fuel. Knowing the mileage I could expect using those fuels, I could compute expected cost of fuel per mile traveled at whatever the  available fuel costs were.

The Sheetz station I reported on is the closest station carrying E85 in my area [Sheetz #376, 1000 Clairton Blvd, Pleasant Hills PA, a 6 mile round trip from my house]. It's the opposite direction from my work, so it's not that convenient to me. But whenever I happened to be in that area, I'd check prices and fill up with E85... or not. There are 2 other Sheetz [18 mi RT and 28 mi RT] and a Sunoco [32 mi RT] within 100 miles Round Trip from me. Only recently did I come across this website, and I post that station's price when I happen to be in the area. Until I joined Planet E85, this Sheetz wasn't on the list of stations. The other stations I mentioned still aren't. I found them using http://www.afdc.energy.gov/afdc/stations/ , which is a government website for identifying the location of alternative fuel stations.

Because of the price differential, I haven't bought E85 in quite a while. Also, I have no idea what Sheetz is charging at their other stores in the Pittsburgh area [these are all in Pittsburgh suburban locations].

However, I've seen some people buying E85 at the station closest to me. All I can figure is that they are so into using an alternative fuel when available that they take the financial hit of buying it.

My feeling is that continuing to post the prices at a station carrying E85 is the only way to make people aware of where the fuel is available, and how much it costs. If the posting of these prices is suppressed, then people who anticipate using E85 won't have the facts that they need to make an intelligent choice about buying their fuel. I know that if this web site gave me accurate E85 prices that indicated I'd get equal or better costs per mile than regular gas, I'd be likely to plan a fill-up and go 6 miles out of my way to get that fuel.

Anyway, I joined Planet E85 in the interests of expanding the information available about E85 prices in my area. I guess there aren't any other members located near those other stations in suburban Pittsburgh, as they aren't on the list of stations we have.

357

This poster lives in Butler County which is north of "the big city".  I have been to the Sheetz store in Robinson Township which is near the airport.   Sheetz advertises E85 from Verasun but Verasun went into chapter 11 or is it 7?  There is no E85 in my immediate area.   Heck, there is only "one" station in Butler County -that I have come across--that sells E10!   There is no ethanol plants in Western Pa or Eastern Ohio.   The other E85 station I have used is on the Pa. Turnpike eastbound rest stop near the Rt28 exit.
You may want to use a mid-grade blend E20 to E30 to see what your "cost per mile" figures are compared to E0 and E85 fuels. 

[Dan M]

Morning Sacramento ...yeah I've actually been thinking how we can add promotional prices ..without skewing the overall results. A 2 hour promotion is just that a promotion not a true reflection of what prices are.

I could see if maybe we add a "promotional price"  tick box.. that tick box would then be scripted so that it did not get counted in the regular prices/averages ..something like that.     

By the time newcomers see the promotional price listed and drive over you can bet the promotion is over and the price is 2-3 times the promotion price and would the newbie would be pissed. The E85 Promotions generally last 2 hours

What I try do here is have people use the Calendar http://e85vehicles.com/e85/index.php?action=calendar when you know of a E85 Promotion coming up... that allows people to plan in advance instead of posting a price "after the fact"

On the other end of that I deleted/ did not a approve a Price that was submitted from California the other day ..of 89 cents for E85   ..89 cents is that right Sacramento ?     Because it was clearly a promotional" price and not a real reflection of prices in the area.

Dan, it was $0.859.  I think it would be okay to post promotional prices; that allows others in the area to know they should go fill up--especially to bring in 1st-timers, if the word spreads.  Also, it is a real price.  If there are sabotagers posting only the bad price spreads (instead of posting both which is what I do), it is best to have an offset for those.

*Perhaps you could have some kind of marquee posting promotional prices across the top, whether we log them in the price data or not?  It would be interesting to see how many/how often of these promotional price events occur.

[SacramentoE-85]

On the other end of that I deleted/ did not a approve a Price that was submitted from California the other day ..of 89 cents for E85   ..89 cents is that right Sacramento ?     Because it was clearly a promotional" price and not a real reflection of prices in the area.

Dan, it was $0.859.  I think it would be okay to post promotional prices; that allows others in the area to know they should go fill up--especially to bring in 1st-timers, if the word spreads.  Also, it is a real price.  If there are sabotagers posting only the bad price spreads (instead of posting both which is what I do), it is best to have an offset for those.

*Perhaps you could have some kind of marquee posting promotional prices across the top, whether we log them in the price data or not?  It would be interesting to see how many/how often of these promotional price events occur.

[Dan M]

Thanks 357..Yeah you go ahead and post whatever you feel is right..thats how we get "averages".. We have some people that post just the Stations with Bad Prices ! Out of frustration with them ..as well we have people who post just Good prices..and people who post both.

[357revo]

I need to give this some thought..

357 has good point but on the otherside of that is ...at those prices no one is using the Station so it really isn't a reflection of what prices are in the area.
.
.
.
Ideas ..suggestions keep them coming ...

I'm driving a flex-fuel 2003 Ford Taurus, which I got "pre-owned" in 2004. Since getting it, I've tracked fuel mileage by the type of fuel purchased. Early on, I filled up exclusively with E85 for a while, and regular gas with E10, and regular gas without any ethanol, to establish fuel mileage based on the type of fuel. Knowing the mileage I could expect using those fuels, I could compute expected cost of fuel per mile traveled at whatever the  available fuel costs were.

The Sheetz station I reported on is the closest station carrying E85 in my area [Sheetz #376, 1000 Clairton Blvd, Pleasant Hills PA, a 6 mile round trip from my house]. It's the opposite direction from my work, so it's not that convenient to me. But whenever I happened to be in that area, I'd check prices and fill up with E85... or not. There are 2 other Sheetz [18 mi RT and 28 mi RT] and a Sunoco [32 mi RT] within 100 miles Round Trip from me. Only recently did I come across this website, and I post that station's price when I happen to be in the area. Until I joined Planet E85, this Sheetz wasn't on the list of stations. The other stations I mentioned still aren't. I found them using http://www.afdc.energy.gov/afdc/stations/ , which is a government website for identifying the location of alternative fuel stations.

Because of the price differential, I haven't bought E85 in quite a while. Also, I have no idea what Sheetz is charging at their other stores in the Pittsburgh area [these are all in Pittsburgh suburban locations].

However, I've seen some people buying E85 at the station closest to me. All I can figure is that they are so into using an alternative fuel when available that they take the financial hit of buying it.

My feeling is that continuing to post the prices at a station carrying E85 is the only way to make people aware of where the fuel is available, and how much it costs. If the posting of these prices is suppressed, then people who anticipate using E85 won't have the facts that they need to make an intelligent choice about buying their fuel. I know that if this web site gave me accurate E85 prices that indicated I'd get equal or better costs per mile than regular gas, I'd be likely to plan a fill-up and go 6 miles out of my way to get that fuel.

Anyway, I joined Planet E85 in the interests of expanding the information available about E85 prices in my area. I guess there aren't any other members located near those other stations in suburban Pittsburgh, as they aren't on the list of stations we have.

357

[DragonWhip]

I forget Wisconsin has a ridiculous law that stations in the same Zip can't have a difference of more then 2 cents. This law was instituted to keep price wars like we had in the 50's and early 60's from happening. Must have been an oil industry bribed law. I am really joyous when Gov't does things like that for our own good.  Later.

[Dan M]

I need to give this some thought..

357 has good point but on the otherside of that is ...at those prices no one is using the Station so it really isnt a reflection of what prices are in the area

I actually have a similar issue where where just 4 blocks from my home a small Station has E85 at $2.29 ..whem the reality is E85 in the area is selling for $1.54

At one time last summer the Manager stopped carrying E85 ..he said he couldn't make any money off it..then mysteriously he started selling it again 2 months later. I am suspecting he had a contract that said he had to carry it ?

Anyway so he set the price at $2.29 and thats where it has been for the last 4 months..clearly he has no intentions of selling E85 so I don't even bother posting prices for that Station because it isn't a "real" reflection of what people are paying for E85 in the Area


On the other end of that I deleted/ did not a approve a Price that was submitted from California the other day ..of 89 cents for E85   ..89 cents is that right Sacramento ?     Because it was clearly a promotional" price and not a real reflection of prices in the area.

So that gives you an Idea of what I approve and dont approve coming through E85Prices.com

So maybe we need to look at How can we improve that to include those types of situations/ Prices without affecting the "Normal"  ranges?  Which is really what we are trying to show .. 

Ideas ..suggestions keep them coming ...

[357revo]

KK, I usually post the prevailing prices for that zip code and that is usually is $ 0.02 from station to station. Later.

In the interests of accuracy in reporting, I believe you should report the price for regular that it is selling for at the station that carries E85. I also post to gasbuddy.com for Reg, Mid, Premium, Diesel prices. I can assure you that NEVER is the price of ANY grade been consistent within 0.02 cents in Allegheny County PA. It isn't even that consistent for specific Brands [Sunoco, Exxon, etc.]

If you take upon yourself the task of posting a price, and you tag it to that particular station, then the price should be what it is at that station.

Example: Right now, the only E85 station in my area is selling at $2.29/gal. Their Regular is selling for $1.85. But prices for regular in my county range from $1.70 to $1.99, and average $1.867 [based on about 190 sites]. Should I report the average $1.87, I'd be making E85 look 2 cents better [relative to regular prices] than it is.

If I fudge the numbers, I could report just about any price between $1.70 and $1.99, saying that was the regular price in "my area". If one of the posters to this site takes it upon themselves to modify the numbers to "prevailing" gas prices, then the integrity of ALL the prices in the system go into question.

[SacramentoE-85]

They are a full service station that has their employee's come out and pump the gas for you.  It's basically for the elderly that don't want to get out of their cars.  But because of that they have a gas price of 2.65 or something ridiculous when gas has been 1.59 around the Lebanon area.  Their E85 price was 1.99. 

So I'm not sure what you want me to report for the gas price when I report their prices.  Should I use their inflated gas price or what the price is at in the area?

Likely you should use the regular unleaded gasoline price of this specific fuel station.  It sounds like they are pricing in the full service per gallon, whether it is gasoline or E85.  This E85 is an apple compared to other stations' E85 oranges.

[DragonWhip]

KK, I usually post the prevailing prices for that zip code and that is usually is $ 0.02 from station to station. Later.