Topic: Engine Oil Designed for Use With Ethanol in Small Engines

[cessna]

Green Earth Technologies announced Tuesday its "ethanol" edition of 2-cycle engine oil which is designed for ethanol fuels to help meet the new Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) standards for non-road engines, equipment and vehicles without additional hardware needed for the engines. On September 4, 2008, the EPA announced new, stricter emissions standards for spark-ignition non-road engines rated below 25 horsepower used in household and commercial applications. This includes outdoor power equipment and personal watercraft and nearly half of these products are powered by 2-cycle engines. The standards will be in place by 2010 for land and 2011 for sea and will require manufacturers of this equipment to significantly reduce harmful emissions. "Our answer is 'fluids', instead of costly mechanical modifications to equipment, as a first step towards meeting these new EPA standards," said Jeff Marshall, CEO of Green Earth Technologies. "And, our answer is available now as consumers and manufacturers alike can immediately use E85 and other ethanol fuels to achieve the greater reduction in greenhouse gas emissions."

[mpersell]

Sent you a PM.

/Shameless plug  

You're running the wrong oil!

Shameless plug/

I figure I earned it because things are really strange today.  Texas has a lower E85 price than the national average and Rush Limbaugh is pitching FFVs on his show....

It is not a shameless plug when you were asked ! I am actually looking for an alternative to the 100:1 aircooled oil I have been using- it was from the company I used to work for and it is too unhandy to buy it there. An old friend sells Schaeffer but he is also not nearby. How does one get 2 stroke oil from your company (AMSOIL right?)- I only see automotive versions of your brand in the big box stores- do some of the auto repair places that move your brand stock it?

I have an adversion to some of the big name brands like Pennzoil that are so easy to buy- to me they are built to sell on price not quality. For a low use item like 2 stroke oil- cost is not a factor for me. That is just me though (LOL).

[1outlaw]

No - I've always kind of viewed 2-stroke engines as sort of high technology...you have crankshafts, bearings, etc spinning at thousands of rpm, lubricated with basically a fog of gasoline (with 1 part of oil in 40 of gas).  It's just seemed like that is such a 'critical' balance that it probably shouldn't be messed with.  Whereas a 4 stroke would be much more forgiving because the oil and gas are separated.

Plus such a relatively small usage...I doubt I burn 50 gallons of 2 stroke gas a year compared to 1000 (and shrinking!) for vehicles.

High tech?  About the time you are trying to reassemble 20-25 uncaged needle bearings on each end of the crank, bend the carb lever which depresses the needle valve to do the gross fuel adjustment after a rebuild- then the load and idle screws, find the tiny piece of grit in one of the little airways in the carb, or when you go to start it you flood it and end up with 2-4 OZ of fuel in the crankcase of an old Mac 91 set up for racing-- then you will be looking for something more modern and higher tech that might be oil injected and possibly have a computer 'runnin it. There was a reason the starting field was 33 carts with 3 in reserve- We might have actually got 27 started LOL. Dang them old reed valves anyway

I feel the same way about E20 or higher in an old 2 stroke- tuning one always seemed to be more of an art than 1,2,3 and if you need more fuel and the carb ports are marginal then a simple load and idle screw adjustment is more than I want to tackle from an operating cost saving standpoint. Now if I had the time just to play- that might be fun to play with !

[1outlaw]

/Shameless plug  

You're running the wrong oil!

Shameless plug/

I figure I earned it because things are really strange today.  Texas has a lower E85 price than the national average and Rush Limbaugh is pitching FFVs on his show....

It is not a shameless plug when you were asked ! I am actually looking for an alternative to the 100:1 aircooled oil I have been using- it was from the company I used to work for and it is too unhandy to buy it there. An old friend sells Schaeffer but he is also not nearby. How does one get 2 stroke oil from your company (AMSOIL right?)- I only see automotive versions of your brand in the big box stores- do some of the auto repair places that move your brand stock it?

I have an adversion to some of the big name brands like Pennzoil that are so easy to buy- to me they are built to sell on price not quality. For a low use item like 2 stroke oil- cost is not a factor for me. That is just me though (LOL).

[Corey872]

No - I've always kind of viewed 2-stroke engines as sort of high technology...you have crankshafts, bearings, etc spinning at thousands of rpm, lubricated with basically a fog of gasoline (with 1 part of oil in 40 of gas).  It's just seemed like that is such a 'critical' balance that it probably shouldn't be messed with.  Whereas a 4 stroke would be much more forgiving because the oil and gas are separated.

Plus such a relatively small usage...I doubt I burn 50 gallons of 2 stroke gas a year compared to 1000 (and shrinking!) for vehicles.

[mpersell]

Did you jet any of the handheld or power tool equip to run E20 or higher? 

Guess I've been fairly lucky with E10, I've run it in 2 kawasaki jet skis, 1 sea doo pwc, 1 husky chain saw, 1 craftsman chain saw and homelite weedeater and leaf blower  - all these engines run for multiple years - sea doo is 12 years old, 1 jet ski is 19 years old, most everything else has at least 4-5 years on it.  Maybe a bit of smoke at start-up, but nothing visible when running.  Always used Pennzoil full synthetic marine 2 cycle oil in the watercraft and Husky oil in everything else.

The only issue (I goofed) was when I tried to get rid of the 'end of season' jet ski pre-mix by putting it in the 13 year old craftsman chainsaw.  It lasted about 2 hours then just quit running because the cylinder was scored badly.  I guess it didn't like the marine oil.  In retrospect, I suppose those engines are water cooled (and cool water at that) do they don't have much issue with heat.  The chain saw is just the opposite...air cooled and half the time, it's running in it's own cloud of exhaust/engine heat so it can get pretty hot.

It will be interesting to see how this new oil pans out.

[mpersell]

Gas cools the saws more so than the oil.  Oil actually burns hotter than the gasoline so running an oil-rich mix actually heats them up more.  I run 100:1 E10 in my handheld 2 strokes with a 100:1 oil and they stay clean and are very easy to start.   Some of the milder engines still have the original plugs in them.  They don't have the black slime around the exhaust either at that mix.

In engines with injectors and power valves and such I run a 50:1 injector oil we have that meets the marine specs.  The water cooled marine oil specs are there to resist gumming because the engines run cooler and when running lower rpms they can load up badly too.  Sometimes trolling with the big engine on fishing boats really loads them up and repeated loading up plays games with the bearing retainers, etc.  The performance of the modern 2 cycle engine is really amazing.

Once upon a time all 2 stroke oil was- well- air cool type. Then they came out with water cool and air cool types. I have tried to be careful in just using the air cool type in my saws. They do not get a lot of hours a year and sit around with E10/oil mix in them sometimes for 6-7 months. They will get a shake and more fresh mix added and away they go. I tend to pick two saws for the day depending on bar length needed and run 'em until the chain needs sharpening (I live in sand country- you should see the fireworks at dusk), then pick up the next saw. I have a Stihl Farmboss (about a 1980 version), a Mac (about a 1980 version), and a Homelite (about a 1995 version). They all have done very well running on a oil rich 40:1 ratio. I think at least one of these saws calls for 25:1 but I have used this same oil for several years and it can go 100:1 IF the manufacturer approves a leaner mix. Have to confess here- 2 cycle oils are not my expertise because I have not kept up with them. Never had to rebuild the motor on a saw yet or fuss with the carb.

I was crew chief of two carts back in college days- we blended that 2 cycle oil to 50:1 on a blueprinted engine turning 12-13,000 rpm and running so lean we only would get a "2 cycle pop, pop" at the end of the back stretch-- 'course an engine was only good for one 60 mile race too before another rebuild One's hand had to be near the intake for manual choking if you started to hear RPM dropping on acceleration (a lean sieze was coming in about 1-2 seconds)

Corey- to add to the heat problem of the saws is the issue of sawdust building up in some areas of the saw- making spots of the engine even worse.

Mpersell- what do you think??

[mpersell]

/Shameless plug   

You're running the wrong oil!

Shameless plug/

I figure I earned it because things are really strange today.  Texas has a lower E85 price than the national average and Rush Limbaugh is pitching FFVs on his show....

[1outlaw]

Once upon a time all 2 stroke oil was- well- air cool type. Then they came out with water cool and air cool types. I have tried to be careful in just using the air cool type in my saws. They do not get a lot of hours a year and sit around with E10/oil mix in them sometimes for 6-7 months. They will get a shake and more fresh mix added and away they go. I tend to pick two saws for the day depending on bar length needed and run 'em until the chain needs sharpening (I live in sand country- you should see the fireworks at dusk), then pick up the next saw. I have a Stihl Farmboss (about a 1980 version), a Mac (about a 1980 version), and a Homelite (about a 1995 version). They all have done very well running on a oil rich 40:1 ratio. I think at least one of these saws calls for 25:1 but I have used this same oil for several years and it can go 100:1 IF the manufacturer approves a leaner mix. Have to confess here- 2 cycle oils are not my expertise because I have not kept up with them. Never had to rebuild the motor on a saw yet or fuss with the carb.

I was crew chief of two carts back in college days- we blended that 2 cycle oil to 50:1 on a blueprinted engine turning 12-13,000 rpm and running so lean we only would get a "2 cycle pop, pop" at the end of the back stretch-- 'course an engine was only good for one 60 mile race too before another rebuild One's hand had to be near the intake for manual choking if you started to hear RPM dropping on acceleration (a lean sieze was coming in about 1-2 seconds)

Corey- to add to the heat problem of the saws is the issue of sawdust building up in some areas of the saw- making spots of the engine even worse.

Mpersell- what do you think??

[Corey872]

Guess I've been fairly lucky with E10, I've run it in 2 kawasaki jet skis, 1 sea doo pwc, 1 husky chain saw, 1 craftsman chain saw and homelite weedeater and leaf blower  - all these engines run for multiple years - sea doo is 12 years old, 1 jet ski is 19 years old, most everything else has at least 4-5 years on it.  Maybe a bit of smoke at start-up, but nothing visible when running.  Always used Pennzoil full synthetic marine 2 cycle oil in the watercraft and Husky oil in everything else.

The only issue (I goofed) was when I tried to get rid of the 'end of season' jet ski pre-mix by putting it in the 13 year old craftsman chainsaw.  It lasted about 2 hours then just quit running because the cylinder was scored badly.  I guess it didn't like the marine oil.  In retrospect, I suppose those engines are water cooled (and cool water at that) do they don't have much issue with heat.  The chain saw is just the opposite...air cooled and half the time, it's running in it's own cloud of exhaust/engine heat so it can get pretty hot.

It will be interesting to see how this new oil pans out.

[TinkerFreak]

That's a new kind of 2 stroke oil. I haven't played with anything like that. Oxytane works fine in two stroke fuel, though. The almost complete lack of smoke was pretty cool. The upper revs had some blue, but it dissipated within about 3 feet from the tailpipe. It was quite the change from that soupy blue exhaust. I agree that better fluids is another answer to the problem.

[DragonWhip]

GT, How does this stuff compare to the additive you were recommending. I guess I should E-mail the company. I'm really skeptical of all chain saws. Used e10 and 50:1 mix and the brand new Husky seized in 20 minutes and the new Stihl lasted 2 weeks before it seized and my 1985 330 homelight keeps on ticking along with my 1986 9.9 boat motor. Is all the new stuff junk or what? Sorry I got off topic, I'm just very frustrated. Later.