Topic: Sheetz Stores in Pittsburgh region offer E85

[Billyk]

There is three Sheetz stores in the Pittsburgh region that offer E85.  There are many other Sheetz stores in this region.   There are no ethanol plants in southwestern Pa other than the Costka plant under construction in Madison, Pa.  This Costka plant will produce ethanol for GM and will serve as a demonstration plant that Costka wants to license the technology to others.  The major ethanol effort in Pa.  is occuring on the other side of the state where an Ethanol corriodor is being constructed into the Philadephia region--home of Pennsylvania's governor. 

[mpersell]

Loan guarantee from the gov't, and a line of credit from private banks, and they did pay it off early.  They did however sell the tank and tank engine division for a paltry $7 million.  There was one week where they had only a million in the bank.  It was scary times for them.

Dan, you may be correct but I don't think the politicians will let GM totally hit the floor.  I am old enough to remember Chrysler being bailed out in 1979 with a 1.2 billion dollar loan and by 1983 they were making money and actually paid off the loan early.  

[Dan M]

Billy I have no doubts Congress would step in to save GM's tail ..

I just believe that GM is already looking well past just producing vehicles..

In less than 3 years we are mandated through HR 6 to be producing 1 Billion Gallons of Cellulose Ethanol..it will happen and it will happen because congress made certian to include the proper incentives $$$ for development and investment..also the pressure because of the Food/Fuel debate will only move us faster in that direction..  GM I believe has it's sights squarley on thohse billions in upcoming revenues .

producing the electric vehicle remains expensive and unprofitable for many decades and even then unless they own part of the electric grid are relying on one source of revenues ..making cars

With E85 Vehicles they diverisfy their income sources and can be a major player in the ethanol market ..what could be better than profiting not only from your vehicle sales but the fuel that powers them

Dan, you may be correct but I don't think the politicians will let GM totally hit the floor.  I am old enough to remember Chrysler being bailed out in 1979 with a 1.2 billion dollar loan and by 1983 they were making money and actually paid off the loan early.   All of the domestic automakers are adapting to a changing market.   Will the changes be too late, too little?  Time wil tell.

This Costka cellulose development needs to be monitored closely.   If Costka's plant produces as advertised, GM (as well as other domestic vehicles) and consumers could significantly benefit from lower fuel costs and vehicles designed to run on E85.   The upcoming GM Volt (as other new domestic vehicles) is being designed to will run on E85 if the owner desires.  I don't believe the Asian automakers have put much effort into developing FFV or E85 capable vehicles.  GM could regain part of the new car sales market with this Costka development.  Then again, how long does it take to constructed large cellulose ethanol producton plants?  Is there "money-credit' available for such a development. 

Somthing that is rarely discussed is the "carbon-neutral" or even "negative" factor with ethanol production.   I have read in the past few months that the newest plants will be "carbon-negative".  I'm unable to easily put this into easy to understand words and will have to refer this to someone else who has a better grasp of this concept.

[DragonWhip]

Just a little off topic, the reason Chrysler was saved is that they produced the engines for our military Tanks. Later.

[Billyk]

Dan, you may be correct but I don't think the politicians will let GM totally hit the floor.  I am old enough to remember Chrysler being bailed out in 1979 with a 1.2 billion dollar loan and by 1983 they were making money and actually paid off the loan early.   All of the domestic automakers are adapting to a changing market.   Will the changes be too late, too little?  Time wil tell.

This Costka cellulose development needs to be monitored closely.   If Costka's plant produces as advertised, GM (as well as other domestic vehicles) and consumers could significantly benefit from lower fuel costs and vehicles designed to run on E85.   The upcoming GM Volt (as other new domestic vehicles) is being designed to will run on E85 if the owner desires.  I don't believe the Asian automakers have put much effort into developing FFV or E85 capable vehicles.  GM could regain part of the new car sales market with this Costka development.  Then again, how long does it take to constructed large cellulose ethanol producton plants?  Is there "money-credit' available for such a development. 

Somthing that is rarely discussed is the "carbon-neutral" or even "negative" factor with ethanol production.   I have read in the past few months that the newest plants will be "carbon-negative".  I'm unable to easily put this into easy to understand words and will have to refer this to someone else who has a better grasp of this concept.

[Dan M]

There is three Sheetz stores in the Pittsburgh region that offer E85.  There are many other Sheetz stores in this region.   There are no ethanol plants in southwestern Pa other than the Costka plant under construction in Madison, Pa.  This Costka plant will produce ethanol for GM and will serve as a demonstration plant that Costka wants to license the technology to others.  The major ethanol effort in Pa.  is occuring on the other side of the state where an Ethanol corriodor is being constructed into the Philadephia region--home of Pennsylvania's governor. 

There is talk of GM possibly needing bankruptcy ..they have enough cash to get through 2008 . I really believe part of the long term solution for GM could be in Costka.. selling not only the vehilces but owning a stake in the cellulose ethanol to power them .. going to take a few years to get the bal rolling

Think cell Phones.. the real money isnt in the Phones (cars) it's in the service subscriptions (fuel)..